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-   -   The criteria of "blue" (http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f47/the-criteria-of-blue-145208.html)

paulanthony 26-04-2015 17:06

The criteria of "blue"
 
Trying to learn about boats is not an easy task with so much subjective opinion.

Having spent a year or more trying to determine the value/s of this often coined phrase " A true blue yacht" I am still none the wiser as to the implication of this term with respect to the criteria a yacht should have to qualify for this coveted label.

So, with a question designed to filter out as much subjectivity and romanticism as possible I will ask the following ...

What are the three most objective and quantifiable things a blue boat must have to qualify distinctly as a blue boat in order of hierarchical importance to be distinguishable on paper from any other kind of sail boat or is this blue topic simply just subjective opinion soaked in an equal measure of romance and a doff to tradition.

As an example maybe some will say survivability and that's fine but survivability to what? force 10 gale? being rolled? What is the blue boat standard?

I personally have at this point concluded that the phrase "true blue boat/yacht" that I see every where means absolutely nothing and we should stop using it if we can not define it properly. I think it is dangerous to infer subjective characteristics of a boat without proper specification.

My Grandad had supposed blue boat. It was a ship but it still sunk as many of them do. I think it is time for boat designers to lay down what the specification is.

barnakiel 26-04-2015 17:34

Re: The criteria of "blue"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by paulanthony (Post 1810586)

(...)

and we should stop using it if we can not define it properly

(...)

What about 'love' then?

b.

fallingeggs 26-04-2015 17:42

Re: The criteria of "blue"
 
1) It floats.

2) It sails.

3) Big enough to carry you plus food and water for as long as you plan to but out at sea.

Objectively? That is all you need.

Everything else is subjective.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

paulanthony 26-04-2015 17:45

Re: The criteria of "blue"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by barnakiel (Post 1810604)
What about 'love' then?

b.

I stopped using that word ages ago..

paulanthony 26-04-2015 17:49

Re: The criteria of "blue"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fallingeggs (Post 1810612)
1) It floats.

2) It sails.

3) Big enough to carry you plus food and water for as long as you plan to but out at sea.

Objectively? That is all you need.

Everything else is subjective.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

That means that all these high volume yards produce blue boats as well then.

colemj 26-04-2015 17:52

Re: The criteria of "blue"
 
Unless you are color blind, a blue boat should be easy to spot…

Mark

paulanthony 26-04-2015 17:55

Re: The criteria of "blue"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by colemj (Post 1810623)
Unless you are color blind, a blue boat should be easy to spot…

Mark

You mean against the background of a blue sky and a blue sea? :whistling:

Stu Jackson 26-04-2015 18:00

Re: The criteria of "blue"
 
Read this and the book:

Characteristics of Offshore Yachts - Page 5 - Cruisers & Sailing Forums

paulanthony 26-04-2015 18:35

Re: The criteria of "blue"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson (Post 1810628)

It is kind of my point really Stu. It's a book of opinion and not a specification. It does not objectify a blue water boat with a defined "measurable" criteria.

The characteristics bleed into every other boat that are rejected as blue water by many but what are the defining boundaries then?...

We have CE category A on everything it seems. (Unlimited ocean voyages) and that is all we have. I have no real way to determine that one boat is more sea worthy than another.

If this blue water notion is true then boat designers should get together and define the standard that separates them from other designs.

sandy stone 26-04-2015 18:52

Re: The criteria of "blue"
 
Maybe the boat designers can't agree either?

Pelagic 26-04-2015 18:58

Re: The criteria of "blue"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by paulanthony (Post 1810640)
....If this blue water notion is true then boat designers should get together and define the standard that separates them from other designs.

Classification Societies like Lloyd's/ABS/Bureau Veritas etc have very defined standards on structural integrity, stability... safety and operating equipment.... Inspection and testing criteria that would satisfy your desire for an offshore Standard. However...They are an expensive part of building and certifying custom vessels (both commercial and pleasure craft).

The fact that most production yacht builders say they build to "Class Standards" but do not engage an independent society to certify each build is a marketing and price point dodge that most Owners are either ignorant or complacent about.

Designers are "idea people" they have neither the Builder's skill or liability to be entrusted with defining the standards you seek

It is quite different on the Super Yacht level where most new builds are built to Class.

colemj 26-04-2015 19:10

Re: The criteria of "blue"
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by paulanthony (Post 1810626)
You mean against the background of a blue sky and a blue sea? :whistling:

Good thing this boat is white…

Mark

paulanthony 26-04-2015 19:10

Re: The criteria of "blue"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sandy stone (Post 1810657)
Maybe the boat designers can't agree either?

You are quite right. They can not agree which is why there is no such thing a blue water boat. There is only a CE A boat.

Jon Eisberg 26-04-2015 19:16

Re: The criteria of "blue"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by paulanthony (Post 1810640)
It is kind of my point really Stu. It's a book of opinion and not a specification. It does not objectify a blue water boat with a defined "measurable" criteria.

The characteristics bleed into every other boat that are rejected as blue water by many but what are the defining boundaries then?...

We have CE category A on everything it seems. (Unlimited ocean voyages) and that is all we have. I have no real way to determine that one boat is more sea worthy than another.

If this blue water notion is true then boat designers should get together and define the standard that separates them from other designs.

Anyone who needs to be told by someone else, or informed by some classification society, whether a particular boat is suitable for "Bluewater", well... perhaps they shouldn't be heading offshore, to begin with :-) There is simply no substitute for educating yourself, sufficient to make your own informed determination...

I'm content with making my OWN decisions re the suitability of particular boats, for particular purposes... Seems that's the way it should be, to me, so I take the approach made famous by US Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart, re his threshold for determining whether a particular case met the standards of "hard-core pornography"...

I know a Bluewater Boat when I SEE one...

:-)

Quote:

I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description ["hard-core pornography"], and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it, and the motion picture involved in this case is not that.

paulanthony 26-04-2015 19:20

Re: The criteria of "blue"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pelagic (Post 1810660)
Classification Societies like Lloyd's/ABS/Bureau Veritas etc have very defined standards on structural integrity, stability... safety and operating equipment.... Inspection and testing criteria that would satisfy your desire for an offshore Standard. However...They are an expensive part of building and certifying custom vessels (both commercial and pleasure craft).

The fact that most production yacht builders say they build to "Class Standards" but do not engage an independent society to certify each build is a marketing and price point dodge that most Owners are either ignorant or complacent about.

Designers are "idea people" they have neither the Builder's skill or liability to be entrusted with defining the standards you seek

It is quite different on the Super Yacht level where most new builds are built to Class.

You could be right. As more people take up cruising it could be time for an injection of regulation from an external body to give better definition and clarification. However in the meantime the claim by a "designer" as to their blue boat virtues over and above another with the same certification has to be regarded as worthless because there is nothing to judge or measure by.


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