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-   -   Another Bene with broken rudder bits (http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f47/another-bene-with-broken-rudder-bits-139394.html)

Saltyhog 10-01-2015 15:07

Another Bene with broken rudder bits
 
I just watched this: LA Vegabonde At around 3:18 is some footage of a failure of the rudder tube to bulkhead adhesive. From his description and the video, it looks like plexus. His repair looks like he added some tabbing and SS straps. This is a Cyclades 43.

For the record, they mentioned grounding the boat in an earlier episode. The grounding did not seem very dramatic. Tide went out, and the boat was hitting bottom. They checked the rudder and rudder post for damage and all was well.

I'm only posting this because I think that if I had one of these boats or another with similar rudder mount construction, I think I'd want to have it strengthened with more structure and some serious fiberglass tabbing before going on any serious passage.

letsgetsailing3 10-01-2015 15:16

Re: Another Bene with broken rudder bits
 
... or take care not to leave the boat where the tide will go out and leave you aground for an extended period.

This was operator error.

I think most any boat other than a full keel is vulnerable in this way.

robert sailor 10-01-2015 15:24

Re: Another Bene with broken rudder bits
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3 (Post 1721372)
... or take care not to leave the boat where the tide will go out and leave you aground for an extended period.

This was operator error.

I think most any boat other than a full keel is vulnerable in this way.

Not really, the spade rudders on Dashew's boats could all take the weight of the boat on the rudder with no issues. Polux recently posted pictures of French boats with bilge keels sitting on their rudders and the British have been building their boats for years the same way with the weight of the boat taken up on the keel and rudder. But I do agree that the way these rudders are supported obviously are on the lighter side and this one failed.

Kenomac 10-01-2015 15:30

Re: Another Bene with broken rudder bits
 
I've been following the adventure of these two for the past couple of months. Very entertaining and well-made videos.

The grounding happened several months ago in Turkey on a tidal flat muddy bottom, and I don't believe the couple ever mentioned that the rudder was giving them problems immediately afterwards. But who really knows, it may have cracked the post support then failed later on, or the rudder may not have ever been in contact with the bottom during the grounding. Most rudders don't extend to the full depth of the keel. But certainly in the repair video, the rudder shaft didn't look that well supported prior to the repair and the shaft doesn't appear to be made of stainless steel. But it's difficult to tell in the video and I'm no expert on the subject.

Seems to me that most sailboats should be able to become grounded safely on a muddy tidal bottom without breaking. Doesn't this happen all the time around the UK and western France? Boats sit on their keels twice daily when the tide goes out. The couple didn't run aground... either the tide went out and left them stuck, but still upright, or the boat swung around at anchor during a tidal or wind shift and left them stuck; but it couldn't have been that bad a situation, because they were able to free themselves without assistance.

DeepFrz 10-01-2015 15:35

Re: Another Bene with broken rudder bits
 
I like what they did for the fix. Looks very strong to me.

letsgetsailing3 10-01-2015 16:18

Re: Another Bene with broken rudder bits
 
Sorry, but if a boat is aground, the rudder is generally vulnerable unless it's significantly shorter than the keel.

Saltyhog 10-01-2015 16:22

Re: Another Bene with broken rudder bits
 
I'm not so sure about the fix. I think for a short term repair it's okay, but I think that rudder tube needs more support along most/all its length. I'd tab that bulkhead (with fiberglass) to the hull below, the deck above and to that short connector piece to and around the rudder tube. I'd also glass the tube to the deck above. Then I'd glass some gussets from the tube to the deck above and the hull below. I'm not a NA or even a "yard guy", but I think the support for a rudder, especially a spade rudder, needs to be pretty strong. Just my opinion, YMMV.

Kenomac 10-01-2015 16:36

Re: Another Bene with broken rudder bits
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3 (Post 1721422)
Sorry, but if a boat is aground, the rudder is generally vulnerable unless it's significantly shorter than the keel.

Then how do you explain the many thousands of boats along the UK and Western France coastline that sit hard on the mud twice daily for several hours when the tide goes out? I would think there are more than just a few of them with spade rudders? No? In fact, I've seen many with spade rudders sitting fast in the mud.

highseas 10-01-2015 16:40

Re: Another Bene with broken rudder bits
 
If keel bottom is shaped properly the boat will lean on its bows if dried out on running aground,keeping rudder well off the dirt.Like my boat for example.

a64pilot 10-01-2015 16:43

Re: Another Bene with broken rudder bits
 
Maybe it's just me, but I think a decent boat should be able to take a soft grounding. Mine has been grounded twice, both times on it's delivery, once by me and once by the delivery Capt.
What I get from this forum is grounding just isn't that un-common an occurence, boats should be designed to handle common occurences


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

DeepFrz 10-01-2015 16:45

Re: Another Bene with broken rudder bits
 
Personally I think that any boat should be able to sit on the ground, so long as there is no severe pounding, and not suffer structural damage. A boat that can't do that is not fit for sea duty, IMHO.

Exile 10-01-2015 16:51

Re: Another Bene with broken rudder bits
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by a64pilot (Post 1721440)
Maybe it's just me, but I think a decent boat should be able to take a soft grounding. Mine has been grounded twice, both times on it's delivery, once by me and once by the delivery Capt.
What I get from this forum is grounding just isn't that un-common an occurence, boats should be designed to handle common occurences


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

:thumb::thumb::thumb:

letsgetsailing3 10-01-2015 17:04

Re: Another Bene with broken rudder bits
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DeepFrz (Post 1721443)
Personally I think that any boat should be able to sit on the ground, so long as there is no severe pounding, and not suffer structural damage. A boat that can't do that is not fit for sea duty, IMHO.


Do we know that this was the case here? I don't think we do.

Saltyhog 10-01-2015 17:04

Re: Another Bene with broken rudder bits
 
If your rudder is too delicate to withstand an occasional grounding (on a soft bottom), then don't come to the Chesapeake. It's like a pass-time around here. When a north wind blows the water out of the bay, half the boats around here are sitting on the bottom in their slips.


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letsgetsailing3 10-01-2015 17:04

Re: Another Bene with broken rudder bits
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by a64pilot (Post 1721440)
Maybe it's just me, but I think a decent boat should be able to take a soft grounding. Mine has been grounded twice, both times on it's delivery, once by me and once by the delivery Capt.
What I get from this forum is grounding just isn't that un-common an occurence, boats should be designed to handle common occurences


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum


I agree, but that's different than anchoring in a tide that grounds your boat.


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