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PirateBooty 14-07-2014 13:19

Looking for Opinions about this Boat and Alternatives
 
Hello CruisersForum,

I'm new and looking for a cruiser and this boat is in my price range. Does anyone have experience with this boat/yard/designer that they can share or have ideas for something similar that I am missing.

I am looking for 44-54 feet that's proven blue water boat for under 200k. Any ideas welcome!

1983 CT 49 cutter Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

I'll initially be living on it for a few years in the SF Bay Area, learning to sail and finishing my work.

Some of the things attracting me to this boat:
- Recent refit and a long list of upgrades
- Two Heads
- Can be single handed(I think)
- Teak removed from Deck(lower maintenance)
- Tank capacity seems about right for extended journeys like crossing the Atlantic(but I'm not sure(feedback wanted))
- It's Red(so it goes faster)

PirateBooty 15-07-2014 09:47

Re: Looking for opinions about this boat and alternatives
 
I've come across the CT-54 by Robert Perry and I'm a bit disappointed in myself for not finding it sooner. This boat embodies everything I want in a boat(except maybe the teak decks). It's got the classic look I've always envisioned when I've thought about some day owning a yacht. It's got mucho space, guest options and woodwork inside that makes your jaw drop. But when I look at these on Yachtworld something jumps out at me, they seem affordable for what you get which makes me feel like I'm missing something.

Is there some fatal flaw with the CT-54 or are they just old boats that need a refit? Can anyone speak to this boat and common problems and issues that are hard/expensive to overcome?

Any help on this is appreciated!

Cheechako 15-07-2014 10:03

Re: Looking for opinions about this boat and alternatives
 
I don't know the specific model you are talking. The CT boats (Ta Chiao) are pretty well built by the mid 80's. Nice interiors but not as good as the Ta Shing built boats. The hulls are heavily laid up, and solid glass in most cases (but not all), run away if this one is a cored hull. Deck cores are often problematic with water intrusion from fittings on deck not bedded adequately. The deck core is often small squares of Asian plywood which rots. But be aware, many of these boats are different and this is just a generalism. Some have extensive use of a formica like product, either in a wood grain finish or white. It is thinner than real formica and often will be starting to delaminate in spots by now. I had a CT 44 which was probably my favorite mono of all, fast and a pleasure to sail. Any tanks in the bilge, even though stainless are suspect within 10 years of build. Teak decks almost guarantee wet deck core on these boats. Many of the CT's had us rigs put on in the states after delivery. Most the seacocks I've seen are heavy bronze ones that will last forever. All of the above applies to the 80's boats, the 70's boats have more issues.
Bob Perry will talk to you about that design I'm sure. Give him a call.

PirateBooty 15-07-2014 10:19

Re: Looking for Opinions about this Boat and Alternatives
 
Thanks for the heads up about the deck core! I found the Ta Shing stuff really early when I ran across a Taswell. Beautiful boats but at the upper end and above what I want to spend.

Cheechako 15-07-2014 10:27

Re: Looking for Opinions about this Boat and Alternatives
 
well... the deck core issues are a possibility on them all. But I think CT didn't use very good bedding compound... But I would check it out if you are interested. They aren't all bad. If the teak decks were removed, they may have rebuilt the deck.. or they may be all wet!

PirateBooty 15-07-2014 10:54

Re: Looking for Opinions about this Boat and Alternatives
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheechako (Post 1584913)
well... the deck core issues are a possibility on them all. But I think CT didn't use very good bedding compound... But I would check it out if you are interested. They aren't all bad. If the teak decks were removed, they may have rebuilt the deck.. or they may be all wet!

Is this something that is commonly found with a survey or is it too intrusive? I won't buy a boat without a thorough survey.

Cheechako 15-07-2014 11:04

Re: Looking for Opinions about this Boat and Alternatives
 
Yes a good surveyor should find it. If you've got a surveyor who isnt in tune with deck core issues on any boats... he doesn't know what he's doing!
Some of the Ta Shing boats were built with small squares of plywood also, but what they did different was to space them and fill the gaps between with resin, thus minimizing any further water intrusion from one spot or leak. Many boats , regardless of where built have balsa core decks and once the water gets in it moves throughout.
So I wouldn't necessarily focus on the deck issue related to just CT's... but they do have poor bedding in the deck fittings. If the original owner rebedded this stuff they could be fine.. although I think that's rare.

Mexdon 15-07-2014 11:38

Re: Looking for Opinions about this Boat and Alternatives
 
If I am not mistaken VirtualVagabond bought a CT54 about 18 months 2 years ago and sailed back to Australia. You could PM him as I don't know if he is active on the forum at the moment.

PirateBooty 15-07-2014 11:40

Re: Looking for Opinions about this Boat and Alternatives
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheechako (Post 1584954)
Yes a good surveyor should find it. If you've got a surveyor who isnt in tune with deck core issues on any boats... he doesn't know what he's doing!
Some of the Ta Shing boats were built with small squares of plywood also, but what they did different was to space them and fill the gaps between with resin, thus minimizing any further water intrusion from one spot or leak. Many boats , regardless of where built have balsa core decks and once the water gets in it moves throughout.
So I wouldn't necessarily focus on the deck issue related to just CT's... but they do have poor bedding in the deck fittings. If the original owner rebedded this stuff they could be fine.. although I think that's rare.


Thanks again. I found a link with some info on the 54s: Ta Chiao CT 54/56 Review: Perry Pirate Ship - Waves Jordan Yacht Brokerage

Cheechako 15-07-2014 12:23

Re: Looking for Opinions about this Boat and Alternatives
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by PirateBooty (Post 1584989)
Thanks again. I found a link with some info on the 54s: Ta Chiao CT 54/56 Review: Perry Pirate Ship - Waves Jordan Yacht Brokerage

that appears to be a different design than you showed above... am I confused?
I'd take the 49 over the pirate ship....

Terra Nova 15-07-2014 12:30

Re: Looking for Opinions about this Boat and Alternatives
 
In general, these were among the first boats imported from Taiwan. They had numerous issues, most due to poor building practices, materials and workmanship. Many were bought by those looking mostly for a super-cheap price. Those buyers rarely knew what was required to make them seaworthy, and were often too tight to have needed repairs professionally done.

While the fiberglass may be extra thick, a buyer might be taking on a new career.

PirateBooty 15-07-2014 12:36

Re: Looking for Opinions about this Boat and Alternatives
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Terra Nova (Post 1585040)
In general, these were among the first boats imported from Taiwan. They had numerous issues, most due to poor building practices, materials and workmanship. Many were bought by those looking mostly for a super-cheap price. Those buyers rarely knew what was required to make them seaworthy, and were often too tight to have needed repairs professionally done.

While the fiberglass may be extra thick, a buyer might be taking on a new career.


This is what I am weighing. From what I am reading, due to the inconsistencies in manufacturing over the years, it's a mixed bag with what you will end up with. If the owner was present for the build, it probably was a better boat from the start, if not, then maybe. I plan to live on the boat I buy for at least 10 years so I'm not sure how much the extra work will be. I'm not too worried about the money for upkeep but more the time and hassle of it. I'll be working full time for at least another year and that leaves weekends for boat work and I'm not sure how much actual sailing I'll get to do if my spare time is spent on upkeep. On the flip-side, when I stop working and start cruising, I'll welcome the extra chores to break up my time.

I'm seriously developing a love affair with this boat!

Mexdon 15-07-2014 12:36

Re: Looking for Opinions about this Boat and Alternatives
 
PirateBooty, have you considered a Liberty 458 Listing linked here:1985 Liberty 458 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

There is a 458 called Nine of Cups that has been cruising 11 years or more I am sure they would give you a report on this model. You can find them in SAilBlogs on the right of the screen about half way down. I have sent this as not many people have heard of the Liberty 458's and 49's but I dont think there are any 49s on the market at the moment.

PirateBooty 15-07-2014 12:42

Re: Looking for Opinions about this Boat and Alternatives
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mexdon (Post 1585045)
PirateBooty, have you considered a Liberty 458 Listing linked here:1985 Liberty 458 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

There is a 458 called Nine of Cups that has been cruising 11 years or more I am sure they would give you a report on this model. You can find them in SAilBlogs on the right of the screen about half way down. I have sent this as not many people have heard of the Liberty 458's and 49's but I dont think there are any 49s on the market at the moment.

I hadn't seen this model before! This is very nice as well and I love the separate shower which is starting to look like a must have for me.

Mexdon 15-07-2014 12:48

Re: Looking for Opinions about this Boat and Alternatives
 
Here is a link for one in Annapolis, I don't know your location but but if it's close enough it a visit will let you see what they are like.
1981 Liberty 45 (Liberty 458 prototype) Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com


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