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-   -   Glue on lifting rings (http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f117/glue-on-lifting-rings-128709.html)

Captain Bill 29-06-2014 14:54

Glue on lifting rings
 
A little over a week ago I took delivery of an Achilles HB-315LX. When I went to put it on my davits I noticed that the bow lifting eye was nearly six inches under the bow tube. There is no way to put this boat on a two davit lift without the bow lift line rubbing the bow tube. After a three day trip from Florida to Beaufort, two days of which were almost dead calm the bow lift line had abraded the bow tube to the point that fabric was showing in a couple of small spots. This was clearly not going to work for any length of time. So I called the dealer to find out how people normally deal with this. This model has been around for quite a while so I can't be the first person to have to deal with it. The dealer assures me that they have never heard of anyone else having a problem like this. Yeah right! They say contact Achilles because they have no idea how to deal with it. So I contact Achilles. Of course it's the first they have ever heard about this problem. In any case Achilles tells me that the flat portion of the floor cannot support a lift ring and they recommend that I not drill any holes in the bottom of the sloped portion. They recommended a glue on lift ring and that it be installed over the abraded area to protect the fabric. They also said that I should have it professionally installed and that it be done under low humidity conditions. I'm in Coastal NC in the summer.....Low Humidity.....ROTFLMAO. In any case, he sends me a list of shops that could do the work, all of which are in Florida or the Gulf coast. I wonder what about NC he failed to understand. In my opinion this is a design defect, but at this point I'm more interested in having the dinghy that a fight with the builder. I personally have no experience with glue on lift rings and am not sure how much faith to put in them. I'm looking for feedback, good or bad, on people's experience with these things. The RIB weighs about 250 lbs including the motor and the gear I normally leave on board. Most of the weight is concentrated on the transom so perhaps a third of the weight might be carried by the bow lifting ring. Maybe even less as the motor actually sits behind the stern lifting rings. One of my other concerns is that because of the humidity around here, the glue might not be as strong as factory made joints. Opinions on this are welcome.

Also, since I don't plan on taking the boat to the Florida or the Gulf coast can anyone recommend an inflatable boat shop in the Oriental/Beaufort NC area that might be able to take on this task.

perchance 29-06-2014 15:27

Re: Glue on lifting rings
 
I think what you are calling a lifting ring is probaly a towing eye. I can't help you in regards to gluing one on but my thoughts are that if the fibreglass on the bow can support an eye on the outside I don't see why it wouldn't support a lifting ring on the inside if done properly.

Captain Bill 29-06-2014 15:45

Re: Glue on lifting rings
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by perchance (Post 1574595)
I think what you are calling a lifting ring is probaly a towing eye. I can't help you in regards to gluing one on but my thoughts are that if the fibreglass on the bow can support an eye on the outside I don't see why it wouldn't support a lifting ring on the inside if done properly.

No, I'm not talking about a towing eye. I'm talking about a ring mounted on the inside of the hull used to attach a davit lifting line. There is a towing Ubolt mounted in the bow. The current lifting ring is an eye nut threaded on to one of the legs of the U bolt. If I drill another hole further back I void my warranty on the hull. They want me to get a glue-on lifting ring glued to the inside surface of the bow tube, not the fiberglass floor.

JPA Cate 29-06-2014 16:00

Re: Glue on lifting rings
 
Captain Bill,

Actually, Achilles is giving you good advice. Some of the dinghy repair places have low humidity rooms for the purpose of getting good glue bonds.

However, if you are wanting to do the job yourself, the new towing eye for a lift point plan is okay. If it is a hypalon Achilles, you can use SC2000 or SC4000 for the glue, and it will work just fine, if you do the prep correctly. If it is PVC, you'll have to have it glued in a dryer environment. I do not know if there are any low humidity repair facilities in NC. They are kind of rare. I know of one for sure in Brisbane, Australia, but no use to you at all, sorry.

How we learned this was in talking to some folks whose business is building large rib dinghies here in Oz.

Good luck with it.

Ann

Captain Bill 29-06-2014 16:14

Re: Glue on lifting rings
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate (Post 1574616)
Captain Bill,

Actually, Achilles is giving you good advice. Some of the dinghy repair places have low humidity rooms for the purpose of getting good glue bonds.

However, if you are wanting to do the job yourself, the new towing eye for a lift point plan is okay. If it is a hypalon Achilles, you can use SC2000 or SC4000 for the glue, and it will work just fine, if you do the prep correctly. If it is PVC, you'll have to have it glued in a dryer environment. I do not know if there are any low humidity repair facilities in NC. They are kind of rare. I know of one for sure in Brisbane, Australia, but no use to you at all, sorry.

How we learned this was in talking to some folks whose business is building large rib dinghies here in Oz.

Good luck with it.

Ann

It is a hypalon Achilles, and I would rather have a pro do it since I have no experience with gluing on structural parts. I put a patch on my old Hypalon dinghy with a 1 part glue that held up for 2 years, but that is the sum of my experience. It did not fail after two years, it's been 2 years since it was put on. I would not mind going to Brisbane, but the dinghy would not survive the trip I'm afraid. Unfortunately it's been raining quite a lot here lately and the humidity is running even higher than normal.

Thanks for the input.

Bill

Jim Cate 29-06-2014 16:23

Re: Glue on lifting rings
 
If I'm understanding the geometry correctly, perhaps your davit lift points are further apart than typical for dinks of this size, thus leading the forward pendant towards chafing on the tube.

So, another approach might be to use a short line between the forward and aft portions of the bridle to pull the forward pendant clear of the tube. Or, the "pull-back" line could terminate on the transom rather than the aft part of the bridle... anything that shifted the forward bit enough to eliminate the chafe. Or you might be able to put a fairlead a bit further inboard on the bow side of the davits, again changing the lead angle to the lift point.

Personally I would avoid glued on rings, even by a pro, for this application. Puts a lot of stress on the fabric, especially if you were to inadvertently get the dink full of water (and this does happen in the real world). There must be a better way!

If you posted some pix of the setup, it would help us visualize a means of helping you think this through.

Good luck,

Jim

JPA Cate 29-06-2014 16:49

Re: Glue on lifting rings
 
Captain Bill,

Jim is more expert than I, so weight his input higher.

Ann

Dalel 29-06-2014 17:52

Re: Glue on lifting rings
 
What about gluing a patch where it is rubbing?

Hud3 30-06-2014 04:18

Re: Glue on lifting rings
 
Bill,

I glued a "D" ring lifting patch to the inside of the tubes in the bow of my Achilles dinghy, and put two "O" bolts through the transom. I made a custom harness for lifting using wire rope and a swaging tool. I used two-part adhesive on the patch, and applied it myself with the dinghy in the water behind the boat when we were in the Caribbean. Before the gluing, I roughed up the Hypalon with sandpaper and cleaned it thoroughly with MEK (methyl ethyl ketone). It held fine through all sorts of bouncing around on the davits. No problems whatsoever.

HopCar 30-06-2014 08:42

Re: Glue on lifting rings
 
In case you decide to do it your self, Weaver sells glue on rings and adhesive.
Weaver Industries, Inc.: Rings
http://www.weaverindustries.com/imag...ings/1006g.jpg

I know several people who have successfully glued on the Weaver davit parts.
If you can get the boat into an air conditioned building you are ahead of the game.

FSMike 30-06-2014 09:24

Re: Glue on lifting rings
 
Bill -
Once had a dinghy that came with preventive measures for that problem already installed.
What the manufacturer had done was to glue on two pieces of rub rail (as used on inflatables) in the affected area of the tubes. The lower edges of the rub rail pieces were butted together and then installed vertically wrapping around the bow tube.
Worked very well to prevent chafing by the lift, and also by the anchor line. Having the higher edges of the rub rail towards the outside helps in keeping the line centered.
Looked pretty neat also.

SVNeko 30-06-2014 10:18

Re: Glue on lifting rings
 
You can't lift it by anything glued onto the tubes. It won't last. It may void your warranty but I don't see anything wrong with drilling through the bottom. I did that on my single skin Zodiac and it worked fine for nearly ten years when the rest of the dinghy gave out. Use a truss head bolt on the outside to limit it catching on things, put a big backing washer on it and seal it up good. If it is double skinned then its a little more complicated.

Tony B 30-06-2014 14:42

Re: Glue on lifting rings
 
The easiest way I know to deal with high humidity is to bring the dink indoors where it is air conditioned.
Gluing is like painting in that over 90% of all failures are due to poor prep.

There is no reason you could not do this yourself. If you screw it up, then take it to a professional shop.

Captain Bill 30-06-2014 15:29

Re: Glue on lifting rings
 
Unfortunately I have no access to an air conditioned shop where I can do this. I'm a full time cruiser, though the boat is in a marina at the moment, the humidity is running about 90% during the driest part of the day. If I can find a pro nearby perhaps they will have a proper space. I've been looking at a few dinks with glue on towing rings in the marina and noticed several with trapezoidal shapes rather than circular. The rings are attached to the narrow end of the trapezoid. This would put much more glue area behind the ring. It would seem to make sense if the ring was primarily pulled from the narrow end. Since the lifting ring will always be pulling "up" it would seem that this type of ring mount would be superior from this application. Any contrary opinions, hopefully based on experience?

dsteinfeld 01-07-2014 08:42

Re: Glue on lifting rings
 
I have an Avon Rover 310 (Hypalon) that's 24 years old and has spent its summers on davits. There are 2 forward lifting rings that were glued onto the tubes by the selling dealer. While other things have failed (including a couple of slow leaks somewhere), there has been no separation of the patch from the tube. I know the weight of the HB315-LX is much higher (as I just bought one!), but based on my experience I'd go with the dealer's recommendation. On the other hand, aft I have 2 U-bolts through the transom. I wouldn't trust glued D-rings back there as I hoist with the outboard in place.

As I haven't tried to hoist the Achilles yet, I'm hoping that the geometry is favorable so that the outboard and bow don't collide with the lifting hardware. Does anyone else have experience with the HB315-LX on davits with outboard mounted?


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