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fastcat435 07-01-2008 10:40

The New Fastcat 405: Please Comment and Help Us Make the Perfect 40-41' Cat
 
7 Attachment(s)
We are in the developement phase of a new 40/41 ft cat lightweight cat
( 3600 kilo ) ready to sail and I have attached the preliminary drawings and would like your comments suggestions etc.
One change that wil be made on the next drawing the seating inside will be squire instead of round to improve watch keeping and the possibility to make it into a third kingsize bed
The dimensions are 41 ft in lenght 23 ft beam and a draught of 3 ft 6 inches in the keel version or 2 ft in the daggerboard version
Thank you for your idea,s comments

tyrntlzrdking 07-01-2008 11:50

Looks nice
 
Is there a step down into the saloon from the cockpit?

tyrntlzrdking 07-01-2008 11:54

Will it be offered with a shaftdrive or is saildrive the only option?

schoonerdog 07-01-2008 12:04

What is forward of the heads? It looks like a solid bulkhead. I personally found that having two heads on an owner designed smaller boat is a bit of a waste. For a charter/owner boat it's a good idea. But for an owner, who 90% of the time doesn't have guests, I would opt for a larger head on the starboard side placed further forward to allow the expansion of the starboard cabin and a more usable head space with a larger dedicated shower. I'd rather have one really nice head than two cramped ones. I found even when I had guests on board our PDQ 36 they liked having a single larger head. For the forward compartments, if they have inside access port the best I've seen are water tight access doors. It allows the security of a solid bulkhead plus the convenience of inside storage.

Port forward I would put a multipurpose space which would be a workshop/office. Just about every cruiser out there has to make his own modifications to make a "garage workshop" in one of their rooms to accomodate tools and working needs. Its odd how so many people who design boats don't realize that the boats are constantly needing repair and a good toolshop. In that room ventilation and lighting are key, a desk/work platform with an opening side window would be very nice. In the central hulls on both sides I would put storage lockers.

The hulls might want additional ventilation and lighting forward of the staterooms in the form of additional and/or larger side ports. Top hatches seem to let in more heat than they remove but the one over the aft births is really a good idea for air flow and comfort when sleeping at night. Last a small overhang of the cabin top to help prevent leaks and reduce the heat gain.

I think it will be a good seller, there's a real need for a boat that's easy to cruise for empty nesters (retirees with grown up kids).

schoonerdog 07-01-2008 12:14

last, you'd never see this in a drawing, but putting the hatches on a small elevated lip standing proud of the deck is very important to help prevent a constant battle with leaks. Trust me.

fastcat435 07-01-2008 12:32

There will be 2 steps from the cockpit down to the saloon and the cockpit space under the floor will be open. to increase bridgedeck height.
We will not offer shaft or sail drive , green motion will be the only possibility so these will be retractable saildrives that come up under the bridgedeck as attached.
The spaces forward of the major bulkhead can be used in different ways,
workshop. extra bunk , separate shower , storeroom etc.we leave this for our clients to fill in.
All our hatches are always raised with 15 mm to prevent water coming in after opening always a problem.
We will use marguard in all the glass hatches , portholes and windows to prevent heat coming in and we will have forced ventilation like the st francis 48 / 50 having a hole for air under the trampoline that is vented thru out the boat so even when anchoring in rain fresh air can come in, for the rest the complete boat will benefit form the experience with the FastCat 435 so all lighting will be led or cold cathode.
all hull openings will be recessed, the complete boat and all parts will be epoxy resin infused and no gell coat will be used. to keep weight down as much as possible
It will be a challenge to keep the ready weight at or under 3600 kilo,s or 8000 LBS
but I am sure we will get there.
there will be hatches in the rear cabin under the outside seats facing backward.

scotte 07-01-2008 12:33

Will it be affordable? The current trend of expensive cats and focus purely on the high end of the market is frustrating...

fastcat435 07-01-2008 12:37

We are looking at Euro 400.000,00 ready to sail complete with genset electric propulsion a good set of sails autopilot radar gps etc
Unfortunately building lightweight is never cheap, it means using closed cell foam , epoxy , carbon fiber , kevlar, basalt fiber and because we resin infuse parts in an autoclave lots of labor and after that we postcure the complete boat in a oven and in the spraybooth it is spraypainted in awl grip

tyrntlzrdking 07-01-2008 12:56

Green
 
Since this is to be a "green" boat without diesel engines, I am sure it will need wind and solar power.

I hope you are aware of Nanosolar - Home Page
Great way to keep solar power costs down.

Therapy 07-01-2008 12:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by scotte (Post 123944)
Will it be affordable? The current trend of expensive cats and focus purely on the high end of the market is frustrating...

Me too!

I am on the list for the first free one (fastcat) though.

It would allow me to travel and sell them!!

fastcat435 07-01-2008 13:03

2 Attachment(s)
You are right we will use both solar and wind generation
at this moment we plan to put 4 x 210 wat solar panels on the hard top bimini and one masthead mounted wind generator like is seen in the attachement.
this should generate 6 to 8 kilowatts per day enough for all the normal energy needs on board including cooking. the retractable motogens will be able to generate up to 3 kw each per hour depending on sailing speed but once the battery,s are full they will be retracted out of the water

Brandywine 07-01-2008 13:25

Cost… cost... cost....

The market is dieing for a reasonably priced performance oriented cat, could there be provisions for double bunks in one hull.

Would a cat of this size and hull shape suffer with to much weight when it has been loaded for cursing? With my family of four I am planning on 5K to 6K lb of gear and provisions.

Seeratlas 07-01-2008 13:29

Instead of the smooth rounded foredeck, I would propose that you mold in some sort of lounge area, (to fit fabric deck cushions which could be used aft and/or taken inside when the boat is locked up. This forward area is a great place to lounge when underway in good weather and presents a lucky captain with females worth gawking at, to so gawk to his heart's content :) hehehe

not that I personally would indulge in such a thing....
btw, that reminds me,

does EVERY female on an aussie boat go topless? or does it just seem that way? heheheh


seer

Seeratlas 07-01-2008 13:40

One other thing, are you sure you want to go with plumb bows? Something a little raked would serve to not only get you some anti-dive extra reserve buoyancy in the bows, but something raked and 'racy' looking would give your 'fastcat' a unique and agressive "look" in profile that would make it stand out from the increasingly clorox bottle looking cat crowd while reaffirming it's design as a FAST fastcat. Something looking more like the head of a shark than a dolphin....in fact, call it the "Fastcat 41 'Mako'" or something since the 'leopard' type cat names are already taken. something a bit sexier than 'the '41' ....heheheh

seer

Therapy 07-01-2008 13:51

I have not used a large cruising cat yet so I know nothing.

I think I want a solid walkway to get to the center bow.

I think I would rather have more cabin and less tramp. I think the Privilege (is it?) is ugly but it has more cabin space.

I think the salon table of the Seawind 1160 is really, really well thought out.

I think the "green" things you are doing are well thought out and at least tested more than some others.

I keep thinking........but still know nothing.

Will I be able to meet you in Miami in Feb.??

cchesley 07-01-2008 14:09

Looks like a pretty fair Weekender/Vacation boat. Fun sailing, but not a long term liveaboard/cruiser. I suspect that FastCat already knows and intends this. Great idea having only a head and bunk in each hull with a solid bulkhead to prevent 'migration of stuff into the end where it doesn't belong'. The galley is actually pretty sizeable but the settee doesn't really show much in the way of sitting headroom even under that sloping windshield.

Two beefs however. 1) Only having a dinette inside for lounging gets old pretty fast on those foul weather days. 2)The perennial wheel behind the bulkhead or 1,2,3 steps up to see over everything, probably hydraulic steering too, huh?.

Integrate the bridgedeck 'facilities' and the cockpit facilities to achieve an open and all one level space a la MaineCat but perhaps with windows forward and partway down the sides giving way to removable curtains.

Comment: why must every cat be designed with a hard top that looks like an afterthought that wasn't planned for???? (I see FP is learning but they haven't quite got it yet in the other departments.)

mikereed100 07-01-2008 14:46

Fast,
I agree with your plan to convert to a squared settee. Round is OK for sitting but you can't lay down and read a book. Square will also give you some much needed counter space in the galley. Beautifull boat!
Mike

scotte 07-01-2008 15:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Therapy (Post 123967)
I think I would rather have more cabin and less tramp. I think the Privilege (is it?) is ugly but it has more cabin space.

Yep, that's how our Privilege 39 is set up. It may be ugly and outdated but it makes for a very strong and rigid boat by tying the crossbar into the bridge hull structure. Plus I can walk all the way to the bow without having to use the trampoline (and this puts the chain locker closer forward as well). Personally, I much prefer having usable boat and deck space than trampoline, but it does need to be designed to shed water well (the Privilege does).

shadow 07-01-2008 19:08

Looks great!! When are you guys hoping to have the first production run out?? Would love to see one in person.. Good luck with this model! Cheers!

vegas 07-01-2008 20:07

The boat looks really nice and should be a great sailor with the daggerboard option. With the hard top it seems like there are two ways to handle it. I think it is best to reduce the downward curve on the outside edge this way the hard top is not noticed by the eye. The other option is to blend it into the lines of the salon. I am sure some ot this stuff is preliminary but a bigger high tech wheel would help in the marketing. The mast top wind generator looks cool but how much weight aloft is it. Nice to see a new 40 foot performance cruiser.

fastcat435 07-01-2008 23:09

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Brandywine (Post 123962)
Cost… cost... cost....

The market is dieing for a reasonably priced performance oriented cat, could there be provisions for double bunks in one hull.

Would a cat of this size and hull shape suffer with to much weight when it has been loaded for cursing? With my family of four I am planning on 5K to 6K lb of gear and provisions.

The 410 will have a payload of 2500 Kilo 5500 lbs for fast cruising and a maximum allowable payload of 3600 kilo 8000 lbs for world traveling.
We normally provide 1 separation for one king size bunk for kids or people not in love.

fastcat435 07-01-2008 23:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seeratlas (Post 123963)
Instead of the smooth rounded foredeck, I would propose that you mold in some sort of lounge area, (to fit fabric deck cushions which could be used aft and/or taken inside when the boat is locked up. This forward area is a great place to lounge when underway in good weather and presents a lucky captain with females worth gawking at, to so gawk to his heart's content :) hehehe

not that I personally would indulge in such a thing....
btw, that reminds me,

does EVERY female on an aussie boat go topless? or does it just seem that way? heheheh


seer

What you propose is not bad for a slow cat but on our type of cats it would cost to much performance, this cat is made to do long range cruises with average speeds in excess of 10 knots per hour and adding forward lounge area will cost payload and speed , it is not our concept.

fastcat435 07-01-2008 23:25

2 Attachment(s)
We always use a solid walkway ( compression beam ) forward and for that reason we have produced a special aluminum extrusion with 11 inches wide walkway and a bottom that splits waves and build in trampoline tracks. we also use Dyneema Trampoline materila that is very strong and stiff and has very minimal stretch ( less than 1 % ) so it is almost as firm as a solid walk way
I cannot be in Miami this year. I will be in Durban with the final testing of the Green Motion Propulsion generation system and preparing for the move to our new Factory Where we will start to build the new 410 and the new 560.

fastcat435 07-01-2008 23:36

1 Attachment(s)
cchesley

The idea behind this cat is that it can be used as a weekender or for long cruises
In my feeling this is about the minimum size to do Ocean crossings with
Smaller is possible but with a lot less comfort .
I have used this Dinette setup for a long time now on our 435 with standard leather interior and even after 4 years it is still like new.
The open space is a great idea but not fit for colder climates and this cat will cruise the world. The hard top as shown is only to show that it will have a hard top , the actual hard top will be a copy of the saloon roof and will standard carry 4 x 210 watt solar panels.

Yes am now doing what I have always wanted to do
I sold my Car Dealerships 7 years ago with the idea to retire and started looking for my Ideal Catamaran , I could not find it ( the gunboat was not out yet) and decided to start building it myself.
My biggest advantage was that I had no idea at all how to build a boat but I do have a technical back ground and was always interested in enrgy saving and lightweight construction.

fastcat435 07-01-2008 23:51

The mast top wind generator has an added weight of 22 LBS but keep in mind that our mast is 8 feet shorter than normal because of the extreme lightweight of this cat.
This lowers the centre of gravity and we are still able to carry plenty of sail .
pointing around 90 squire meters or 1000 squire feet.
the advantages of having the wind generator in top are
1. a lot less noise
2. more than double the energy

Seeratlas 08-01-2008 00:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by fastcat435 (Post 124076)
The mast top wind generator has an added weight of 22 LBS but keep in mind that our mast is 8 feet shorter than normal because of the extreme lightweight of this cat.
This lowers the centre of gravity and we are still able to carry plenty of sail .
pointing around 90 squire meters or 1000 squire feet.
the advantages of having the wind generator in top are
1. a lot less noise
2. more than double the energy


Fast, how do you shut the wind gen down up there when you get into an unexpected 50 or 60 knot wind? If that thing stays turning, I can just imagine all the hell it would cause when it came loose...

seer

shadow 08-01-2008 00:07

Is there an estimated time of release of the first production run to be sold??

cat man do 08-01-2008 00:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by fastcat435 (Post 123956)
at this moment we plan to put 4 x 210 wat solar panels on the hard top bimini and one masthead mounted wind generator like is seen in the attachement.


Having been onboard a boat that had it's wind gear blown off at 97 knot's, how does the wind Gen. cope?

Dave

Seeratlas 08-01-2008 00:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by fastcat435 (Post 124066)
What you propose is not bad for a slow cat but on our type of cats it would cost to much performance, this cat is made to do long range cruises with average speeds in excess of 10 knots per hour and adding forward lounge area will cost payload and speed , it is not our concept.

Fast, not sure you understand what i'm saying. I'm not talking about a foward cockpit, I'm talking about molding into your rounded foredeck a couple of indents to fit a couple of bodies, think something along the lines of those 2 people molded recliner jacuzzis. Just a shape that would eliminate the need for a couple of lounge chairs. I can't believe that would add much weight or cost much windage, certainly less than two people just sitting up there on the tramp. :)

seer

fastcat435 08-01-2008 00:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seeratlas (Post 124080)
Fast, how do you shut the wind gen down up there when you get into an unexpected 50 or 60 knot wind? If that thing stays turning, I can just imagine all the hell it would cause when it came loose...

seer


We can shut down the wind generator by remote switch and it shuts down automatically at wind speeds above 40 knots.
It is tested up to 100 Miles of wind speed without damage.

fastcat435 08-01-2008 00:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seeratlas (Post 124089)
Fast, not sure you understand what i'm saying. I'm not talking about a foward cockpit, I'm talking about molding into your rounded foredeck a couple of indents to fit a couple of bodies, think something along the lines of those 2 people molded recliner jacuzzis. Just a shape that would eliminate the need for a couple of lounge chairs. I can't believe that would add much weight or cost much windage, certainly less than two people just sitting up there on the tramp. :)

seer

Hallo Seeratlas It would ad weight in a location where I want to keep weight to the absolute minimum Maybe we could fit 2 seating like arrangements into the front windshield but I have always loved to just go down on the trampoline and linger in the sun.

fastcat435 08-01-2008 00:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadow (Post 124081)
Is there an estimated time of release of the first production run to be sold??

We have started selling already and the first 3 units are sold.
The first 410 will be in the water middle of next year and as we always do no cat is the same every improvement we can make along the total production run we will make even after a boat is sold and still in production.

GordMay 08-01-2008 02:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by schoonerdog (Post 123940)
last, you'd never see this in a drawing, but putting the hatches on a small elevated lip standing proud (sic: housekeeping pad) of the deck is very important to help prevent a constant battle with leaks. Trust me.

I like it - a lot.

I too, would like to see all penetrations (chainplates, cleat fastenings, hatches, etc) of nominally horizontal surfaces (deck & house) occur through “housekeeping pads” and/or significantly canted surfaces (drainage slope) - preferably both.

Joli 08-01-2008 05:35

Looks good Gideon. I think everyone hit the major issues.

Curved saloon seating looks sexy but straight seats with a corner are more comfortable.

The Lagoon's have gone to vertical windows for room, yours has heavily sloped windows. Obviously your profile is more slippery for weather work but the forward saloon seating position in the elevation drawings looks cramped. I'm almost 2 meters tall, would I fit?

How is the cabin top accessed since it is heavily sloped? Will there be flat pads or perches for working at the mast base?

Cheers,

Joli

fastcat435 08-01-2008 09:21

The saloon seating will be like the picture in answer 24 The standing height in the saloon and in the hulls will be 1.96 meters or 6 ft 7 inches. next to the mast on each side is a small step up to the saloon roof .
You will be able to sit comfortably on the forward side of the table
Do not forget this is only the first preliminary drawing shown to you but we will make at least 12 different sets until satisfied ands starting the production of the Plug 6 months from now.
The Lagoon way of having windows is great for space inside but not so good for windage and we try to produce more of a performance type cat. It is impossible to make both in one Cat
Every yacht is a compromise and we are on the fast track.
Greetings
Gideon

fastcat435 08-01-2008 09:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by GordMay (Post 124099)
I like it - a lot.

I too, would like to see all penetrations (chainplates, cleat fastenings, hatches, etc) of nominally horizontal surfaces (deck & house) occur through “housekeeping pads” and/or significantly canted surfaces (drainage slope) - preferably both.

Hello Gord
In later drawings all these penetrations will be seen , one thing is for sure in all our cats it is possible to reach all connections from the insdie , nothing is hidden , that makes life a lot easier if you ever have a leak


Greetings Gideon

David M 08-01-2008 10:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seeratlas (Post 123965)
One other thing, are you sure you want to go with plumb bows? Something a little raked would serve to not only get you some anti-dive extra reserve buoyancy in the bows, but something raked and 'racy' looking would give your 'fastcat' a unique and agressive "look" in profile that would make it stand out from the increasingly clorox bottle looking cat crowd while reaffirming it's design as a FAST fastcat. Something looking more like the head of a shark than a dolphin....in fact, call it the "Fastcat 41 'Mako'" or something since the 'leopard' type cat names are already taken. something a bit sexier than 'the '41' ....heheheh

seer

Personally, I think plumb stems look more high tech. They also give you a little more waterline which of course is faster. How many older and slower designs do we see with excessively raked stems? Marinas are filled with poor sailing dock queens with raked bows that try to look like old clipper ships. That is a very tired look.

Is there ANY option for diesel propulsion? Green boats are sort of a trend right now but I think there will always be a demand for both. I can eventually see the necessity for motoring many miles or needing the extra propulsion for getting oneself out of a jam. I do like the idea of having an abundance of solar cells...the more the better.

Having no gelcoat is also a great idea. In my experience, an LPU like AwlGrip is much easier to clean and maintain and overall looks better than gelcoat. Whatever I have my boat painted it will not be white. The bleach bottle look is unnecessary. I kind of like that light yellow look...and its still practical from a heat standpoint. On one of your competitors boats, Gunboats, the owner had his boat painted a light yellow...it looks pretty good.

I agree with a previous poster that there needs to be a small work area on boats where the owner is living aboard. It makes no sense for boats entering charter service of course.

Overall, I like the design and think it will be a good looking boat.

Whats the backlog now? What do you guess the backlog will be in a few years?

400,000 Euro is NOT expensive for what you are offering. This boat is certainly on my list of boats to consider purchasing when that time comes.

fastcat435 08-01-2008 10:15

Hallo David

Diesel will be possible but the cost wil be the same as the retractable electric version
After you have tried out the electric version that we produce with the higher sailing speeds , no noise , smoke , fumes and maintenance I am sure I can convince you.
Plumb bows look more high tech but if you havce ever hit something floating in the water like I have you will prefer the slightly raked hulls so if you hit something , at least you have a better chance to slide over it instead of hitting it full speed The slope we will try to keep at 10 % but the final words are not yet said on this so we might end up with a plumb bow , this is one of the reasons for me to start this thread. get your opinions and work with them .

fastcat435 08-01-2008 10:43

I will let you in on a small secret Hull number five of the fastcat 460 will be spray painted in Very light yellow glow in the dark paint.
At night it will shine turqoise for well over 12 hours.
This will increase safety and will give the boat a very sleek appearal
There are 3 41 ft cats on order but we have not really started selling yet
Nice hearing from you

Greetings
Gideon

David M 08-01-2008 11:02

Please post some links to some pictures when you get them.

Thanks
David


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