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David_Old_Jersey 08-07-2013 06:53

The (Official) "Lets Bash the Nina Thread" - sponsored by Bazzer :-)
 
Set up simply in order to leave the existing Nina thread alone / for constructive comments:

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ml#post1279810

So, "Lets Bash the Nina" - or as it's also known:
  1. Learning from the experiences of others.
  2. Working through options and solutions
  3. Monday night quarterbacking.
  4. Armchair sailing (with and without bucket :p).
  5. Kicking someone when they are down.
  6. Pretending that self is a lot smarter by criticising others.

Me likes to do 1. and 3.........but likely I stray into others :rolleyes:.

atoll 08-07-2013 07:02

Re: The (Official) "Lets Bash the Nina Thread" - sponsored by Bazzer :-)
 
whilst we are about it,any news on the"Lady Domina"?

zeehag 08-07-2013 07:05

Re: The (Official) "Lets Bash the Nina Thread" - sponsored by Bazzer :-)
 
i dont find need to bash the missing..
i also dont see any need in taking a precious WOOD antique into dangerous waters without any one on board with local knowledge. stuff happens.

i hope they ok but i have the sinking feeling this feeling was felt before with the missing souls. sprung planks sink ships very fast.

minaret 08-07-2013 07:24

Re: The (Official) "Lets Bash the Nina Thread" - sponsored by Bazzer :-)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by zeehag (Post 1279881)
i dont find need to bash the missing..
i also dont see any need in taking a precious WOOD antique into dangerous waters without any one on board with local knowledge. stuff happens.

i hope they ok but i have the sinking feeling this feeling was felt before with the missing souls. sprung planks sink ships very fast.




Precisely. One sprung butt block is all it takes. Usually only three fasteners on a plank end to the butt block. If this vessel was iron sick, this is the most likely scenario. Anyone know if she was bronze fastened or not?

Mr B 08-07-2013 07:39

Re: The (Official) "Lets Bash the Nina Thread" - sponsored by Bazzer :-)
 
You dont need to Bash the Nina,

The Tasman Sea is my local waters, I get the weather on it every night on the 6 oclock news,
For the last month, the weather in the Tasman Sea, Bass Straight, The whole of NZ, Top of the Southern Ocean, Has been Horrific,

The Nina would have already been bashed to the Shithouse and back,
Winter down here is not a Pleasant Picnic,

And Head Winds, It will get a lot more bashing before it gets to OZ,

At this time of year, Its OZ to NZ, Fast,

NZ to OZ, This time of year, Very Slow, Very Iffy, Not recommended,

zeehag 08-07-2013 08:10

Re: The (Official) "Lets Bash the Nina Thread" - sponsored by Bazzer :-)
 
nina was gorgeous..

MarkJ 08-07-2013 09:05

Re: The (Official) "Lets Bash the Nina Thread" - sponsored by Bazzer :-)
 
I find it ridiculous that we can not discuss the Nina topic. Its Thought Police. We should be able to pose ideas that help us all in our own safety.

I might not agree with Bazzer but he has been the only person with the guts to speak up.

If it was me out there you would be critically analysing every decision I had made (including my boat!) and if in doing so you save lives then thats what is important.

Those that are lost at sea in all disasters since time immemorial are remembered for what they have taught succeeding generations of sailors.

If trying to save lives is armchair quaterbacking (sounds like some gay romp?) then lets all hail quarterbackers!

There are some excellent minds on this forum and people with a vast knowledge of an area that international cruisers use for the first time comming from the Pacific islands and to and from Australia. (Remember that devestating northbound transit from NZ to Tonga in the early 1990's?) Theres lots for us to learn!


Mark

deepblueln 08-07-2013 09:14

Re: The (Official) "Lets Bash the Nina Thread" - sponsored by Bazzer :-)
 
I don't have an issue with discussing it, but I do understand the wish to keep such a discussion separate from the support for family (which may eventually turn into wake/memorial). If it were my husband or child out there, I would be clinging to the faintest shreds of hope, not wanting to hear a litany of what my loved ones did wrong.

I have no analysis to offer, just a question. How common is this -- a boat leaves port, and just vanishes? This, and a couple in the Atlantic/Caribbean area, that have been discussed here just in the last month or so... it is honestly quite frightening to think that boats are just blinkung off the face of the Earth every week.

Mr B 08-07-2013 09:27

Re: The (Official) "Lets Bash the Nina Thread" - sponsored by Bazzer :-)
 
Try the Sydney Hobart race in the 90's, They lost about 8 boats, Same ocean as the Nina is floating around in, She is a bit further to the north,

There is a video of the Ocean conditions at the time of the rescue from the helicopter,

Tasman Sea, Think, Northern Atlantic or Bering Straight in the middle of winter,
Thats the Tasman and Bass Straight for you,

Mystic38 08-07-2013 09:32

Re: The (Official) "Lets Bash the Nina Thread" - sponsored by Bazzer :-)
 
This.., but more.

I think it is pretty tasteless, inconsiderate and downright ignorant to start opining from an armchair second guessing everything associated with a vessel, its equipment, personnel and plans when friends and relatives are posting here simply asking for information about the lives of their loved ones.

The time for any critique is after the fact. It is very valid upon conclusion of any search to have a "what did we learn" and "what could have been decided different" type of discussion..........but here, now, during the process of a search, such hindsighting quarterbacking is degrading and pathetic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by deepblueln (Post 1279986)
I don't have an issue with discussing it, but I do understand the wish to keep such a discussion separate from the support for family (which may eventually turn into wake/memorial). If it were my husband or child out there, I would be clinging to the faintest shreds of hope, not wanting to hear a litany of what my loved ones did wrong.

.


zeehag 08-07-2013 09:40

Re: The (Official) "Lets Bash the Nina Thread" - sponsored by Bazzer :-)
 
it would be a blessing to all if these good souls were hiding from the seas and storms of that notorious area.

would be so awesome to have em return out of blue and post something---but......


is truth the boat is wood. it is truth that the boat is old...and of wood construction.
when was last haulout--3 yrs ago i read somewhere--not recent enough.
bounty, also wood, was bashed for not being maintained properly, and it was out of water only months before demise.
reality dictates......dreams and hopes are merely those, until something of substance appears to shoiw what happend, who can even say what did--same with lady domina.
sailors try to sail to schedules and do not always check weather at the periphery of their chosen routing--that can be a problem....

yes i have waited on learning of my brothers demise in flagstaff in january, 1973, an ill fated climbing trip--i know how it is to be advised even by family--grandmother called me to let me know my brother was dead--when in reality he was very much alive and in hospital with frostbite....the deceased was a female without proper clothing for blizzard conditions.

yes it is a relief when family comes up not dead. let us hope these souls are in that category...until then.......i hope they are at peace.


mebbe what we need to learn is how to properly plan a voyage tominimize difficulties--check weather , check locale for idiosynchratic problems, and check boat for safety ....

David_Old_Jersey 08-07-2013 09:48

Re: The (Official) "Lets Bash the Nina Thread" - sponsored by Bazzer :-)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkJ (Post 1279977)
I find it ridiculous that we can not discuss the Nina topic. Its Thought Police. We should be able to pose ideas that help us all in our own safety.

You can post anything you want - just that on another (this!) thread it would be less impolite.

and I too value these events as a learning tool :thumb:., even when it does upset those directly involved.

If the boat got hit by a "rogue" wave (I hate that term as suggests that bigger and more awkward waves from the set pattern are unexpected - they are to be expected, just unexpectedly :p) which pitch-polled or rolled them leading to nigh on instant flooding (not a given even from those events, but apart from hatches open (unlikely) structural damage not out of the question) then she would have gone down quickly leaving no time for switching on the EPIRB..........but I think every other scenario (except run down by a ship) leaves time for at least turning on the EPIRB (even if it did not lead to a rescue), apart from one........

.....which I raise only as a learning point to consider (in the case of the Nina no actual facts to base this on, so only a possibility and not an accusation).....and that point is a Skipper who is confident in ability (and from past experience has good reason for that confidence) to sort a cascade of smaller events and which ultimately lead to the boat sinking without having set off the EPIRB......because time ran out / left too long.

From past experiences (not boat related), in a possible personal EOTW scenario it is not panic that is the problem so much as disbelief, and rather than inaction easy to get sucked into too much action (which whilst having merit is not in itself an answer to the bigger problem) - and not enough thought. The irony being that a newbie sailor scared witless in a plastic fantastic boat (no model names - Don ;)) may well have a better chance of rescue than a man of steel on a boat of oak with a squillion miles under the keel simply because step A would have been press the big red button.

The answer? no idea.....I doubt there is a one size fits all (scenarios) answer.

SVNeko 08-07-2013 09:49

Re: The (Official) "Lets Bash the Nina Thread" - sponsored by Bazzer :-)
 
Its Monday MORNING quarterbacking - because most football games are played on Sunday (there is one on Monday night, but the saying ignores it).

David_Old_Jersey 08-07-2013 09:55

Re: The (Official) "Lets Bash the Nina Thread" - sponsored by Bazzer :-)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mystic38 (Post 1280004)
This.., but more.

I think it is pretty tasteless, inconsiderate and downright ignorant to start opining from an armchair second guessing everything associated with a vessel, its equipment, personnel and plans when friends and relatives are posting here simply asking for information about the lives of their loved ones.

The time for any critique is after the fact. It is very valid upon conclusion of any search to have a "what did we learn" and "what could have been decided different" type of discussion..........but here, now, during the process of a search, such hindsighting quarterbacking is degrading and pathetic.

That's why the discussion has moved here - and also so is not restricted to only the Nina and can wander off into other areas / events.

I appreciate that not everyone will be happy with this thread (especially some of those directly affected), but can't keep everyone on the internet happy and CF about learning from each other.

Harsh as it sounds, if folk don't like this thread - then don't click (back) into it :thumb:.

ryon 08-07-2013 09:55

Re: The (Official) "Lets Bash the Nina Thread" - sponsored by Bazzer :-)
 
Would it be okay if we could bash the bashers? I've got some unresolved hostilities that I would love to dump on their sorry :deadhorsebeat:


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