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-   -   use 1/4" die grinder with 1/8" shaft tooling?? (http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f55/use-1-4-die-grinder-with-1-8-shaft-tooling-100926.html)

Boulter 29-03-2013 21:06

use 1/4" die grinder with 1/8" shaft tooling??
 
Hi:

I have a nice selection of burrs and saws for hacking various bits of my boat, but they are all 1/8 inch shaft, typically used in a Dremel style rotary tool. I am very happy with the tooling, but I killed the Dremel (ruined the flex coupling). I don't think the Dremel is robust enough given the extensive work I will be doing - even if I can find parts for a 30 year old tool.

So I found air powered die grinders that spin at 20,000 RPM that should be indestructible in comparison to a rotary tool. The right angle grinder will likely provide better access in many cases too, The only problem is that they only come with a 1/4 inch collet. Two other makes I found also only have a 1/4 inch collet.

I guess if I have to, I will fire up my POS lathe and drill a hole down the centre of some cold rolled and epoxy the tools in place - the likely large run out should not be of too much concern. Just wondering if anyone has a better idea, like perhaps a commercially available adapter of some sort exists.

It is unclear why a 1/8 collet wouldn't be standard equipment, like routers that come with both 1/4 and 1/2 inch collets.

Thanks for any ideas.

Boulter

Jim Cate 29-03-2013 21:24

Re: use 1/4" die grinder with 1/8" shaft tooling??
 
From memory, just such a reducing collet should be available from any decent tool supply house. I had one for my die grinder some years ago... And even small amounts of runout will vibrate like hell at twenty thou!

Cheers,

Jim

dannobee 29-03-2013 21:43

Re: use 1/4" die grinder with 1/8" shaft tooling??
 
Because 1/8" shafts aren't made for serious work. And if you have used a 1/2" router and have used both 1/2" shaft bits and 1/4" bits with the collars, you'd know that the bigger shaft bits run smoother and break less frequently.
And a 1/4" air powered die grinder has a LOT more power than any Dremel tool. Do you really want to be leaning on that tool hard, knowing that it has an 1/8" bit? Buy the right bits, even if it's one at a time.

minaret 29-03-2013 23:21

Re: use 1/4" die grinder with 1/8" shaft tooling??
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dannobee (Post 1198160)
Because 1/8" shafts aren't made for serious work. And if you have used a 1/2" router and have used both 1/2" shaft bits and 1/4" bits with the collars, you'd know that the bigger shaft bits run smoother and break less frequently.
And a 1/4" air powered die grinder has a LOT more power than any Dremel tool. Do you really want to be leaning on that tool hard, knowing that it has an 1/8" bit? Buy the right bits, even if it's one at a time.



+1. 1/8 shaft is a travesty perpetrated on unsuspecting homeowners. 1/4" shaft bits are vastly superior and often much cheaper from industrial suppliers. There is also much more variety available in 1/4". Throw away those useless 1/8" bits and get a real die grinder with real bits. They will break and injure you in a 1/4" grinder. I use both pneumatic and electric. I prefer pneumatic because of trigger control and because you can regulate the pressure down to adjust RPM. Electric only has one speed, wide open. You can get a right angle pneumatic from Harbor Freight for less than $10, and it will outwork and outlast the useless Dremel every time. I have 1/4" burrs that are years old and see heavy industrial use, but still cut great.

Exile 30-03-2013 06:46

Re: use 1/4" die grinder with 1/8" shaft tooling??
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by minaret (Post 1198182)
1/8 shaft is a travesty perpetrated on unsuspecting homeowners.

Hey, wait a minute!! That's ME!

Not long ago I bought the latest & greatest corded Dremel 4200. Died after only one month! Got a new one under warranty. So far it's still going, but likes to eat its rather expensive attachments, esp. sanding disks. Been using it on a couple of projects where it stays on (at lower speeds) for long periods, and gets HOT. Could it be that these are not designed for continuous duty?

Like many unsuspecting homeowners & boatowners, I don't have an air compressor handy so don't have the option of pneumatic tools. I can already see that the high speed, on-off of the electric die grinders would result in an instant house/boat call, I'm afraid, from Minaret! Oh well, if/when the Dremel craps out again, maybe I'll give an electric die grinder a try. Then there's also the oscillating tools . . . . (waiting for the Minaret flame).

minaret 30-03-2013 06:52

Re: use 1/4" die grinder with 1/8" shaft tooling??
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Exile (Post 1198314)
Hey, wait a minute!! That's ME!

Not long ago I bought the latest & greatest corded Dremel 4200. Died after only one month! Got a new one under warranty. So far it's still going, but likes to eat its rather expensive attachments, esp. sanding disks. Been using it on a couple of projects where it stays on (at lower speeds) for long periods, and gets HOT. Could it be that these are not designed for continuous duty?

Like many unsuspecting homeowners & boatowners, I don't have an air compressor handy so don't have the option of pneumatic tools. I can already see that the high speed, on-off of the electric die grinders would result in an instant house/boat call, I'm afraid, from Minaret! Oh well, if/when the Dremel craps out again, maybe I'll give an electric die grinder a try. Then there's also the oscillating tools . . . . (waiting for the Minaret flame).



Maybe do what I did and build a small compressor into yer engine room? That way you can use die grinder and spray gun any time you like to fix a ding or two. Only costs a few hundred bucks. Nice to have air aboard, I use it a lot.

delmarrey 30-03-2013 07:02

Re: use 1/4" die grinder with 1/8" shaft tooling??
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by minaret (Post 1198182)
+1. 1/8 shaft is a travesty perpetrated on unsuspecting homeowners. 1/4" shaft bits are vastly superior and often much cheaper from industrial suppliers. There is also much more variety available in 1/4". Throw away those useless 1/8" bits and get a real die grinder with real bits. They will break and injure you in a 1/4" grinder. I use both pneumatic and electric. I prefer pneumatic because of trigger control and because you can regulate the pressure down to adjust RPM. Electric only has one speed, wide open. You can get a right angle pneumatic from Harbor Freight for less than $10, and it will outwork and outlast the useless Dremel every time. I have 1/4" burrs that are years old and see heavy industrial use, but still cut great.

Ditto!
Those 1/8" arbors are made for dental work. IAW's light duty. I've had my right angle Dotco since 1973 and still going strong (after a couple shaft replacements over the years). The 1/4" arbors are nearly impossible to bend by hand. I do keep some 1/8" arbored bits, but they are for micro work only. Most die grinders, one can get 1/8" and 3/16" collets. >>> die grinder collets - Google Search

Exile 30-03-2013 07:11

Re: use 1/4" die grinder with 1/8" shaft tooling??
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by minaret (Post 1198318)
Maybe do what I did and build a small compressor into yer engine room? That way you can use die grinder and spray gun any time you like to fix a ding or two. Only costs a few hundred bucks. Nice to have air aboard, I use it a lot.

Nice idea. My engine compartment is really tight, esp. since I also have an older 8kw genset, as well as a serious fuel polisher, stuffed in there. One day I may go the inverter route & dispense with the genset, which would free up lots of room. There's probably room in a locker for a small air compressor so I'll look into it. I agree it would be handy for all sorts of jobs.

If you think of it sometime, perhaps you can post a pic or two of your set-up (if you haven't already, that is).

I guess there are electric die grinders with variable speed after all. There's one from Makita called a Model GD0800C. It's pricey, and I'm sure they can be had cheaper, but the Makita will probably never fail.

Nicholson58 30-03-2013 07:18

Re: use 1/4" die grinder with 1/8" shaft tooling??
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Boulter (Post 1198149)
Hi:

I have a nice selection of burrs and saws for hacking various bits of my boat, but they are all 1/8 inch shaft, typically used in a Dremel style rotary tool. I am very happy with the tooling, but I killed the Dremel (ruined the flex coupling). I don't think the Dremel is robust enough given the extensive work I will be doing - even if I can find parts for a 30 year old tool.

So I found air powered die grinders that spin at 20,000 RPM that should be indestructible in comparison to a rotary tool. The right angle grinder will likely provide better access in many cases too, The only problem is that they only come with a 1/4 inch collet. Two other makes I found also only have a 1/4 inch collet.

I guess if I have to, I will fire up my POS lathe and drill a hole down the centre of some cold rolled and epoxy the tools in place - the likely large run out should not be of too much concern. Just wondering if anyone has a better idea, like perhaps a commercially available adapter of some sort exists.

It is unclear why a 1/8 collet wouldn't be standard equipment, like routers that come with both 1/4 and 1/2 inch collets.

Thanks for any ideas.

Boulter


McMaster-Carr Buy a set of 1/8 or 1/4 shank from McMaster. Their 'set' prices are quite good and the burs are excellent. I found the best drive to be a 1/4" pannel tool (Home Depot). This is essentially a tiny router. Take the accessory sleeves and do-dads off and use the bare tool as you would the Dremmel. I also have a compressed air die grinder but it takes huge power to compress air for one of these.

minaret 30-03-2013 07:35

Re: use 1/4" die grinder with 1/8" shaft tooling??
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicholson58 (Post 1198331)
McMaster-Carr Buy a set of 1/8 or 1/4 shank from McMaster. Their 'set' prices are quite good and the burs are excellent. I found the best drive to be a 1/4" pannel tool (Home Depot). This is essentially a tiny router. Take the accessory sleeves and do-dads off and use the bare tool as you would the Dremmel. I also have a compressed air die grinder but it takes huge power to compress air for one of these.



Sure, if you need to run it wide open for a long time. A little pancake compressor will push one just fine for repair work, especially if you've regulated it down. Same for touch ups, obviously you can't spray the whole boat with it, but it's great for repairs. The "panel tool" is called a laminate trimmer.

perchance 30-03-2013 08:14

Re: use 1/4" die grinder with 1/8" shaft tooling??
 
I still have the 1/8 shank air powered pencil grinder form my mould repair days. The burrs and stones for these are not light duty. They are meant for fine work not hogging off huge amounts of material. Use them as they are meant to be used and the work fine.

Boulter 30-03-2013 10:33

Re: use 1/4" die grinder with 1/8" shaft tooling??
 
Hi:

Thanks for the replies and the many safety warnings.

I am primarily doing two things.

First cutting away the headliner at the edges of the boat to expose the underside of the stanchion fittings, cleats etc. To do this I was using a very thing carbide "saw" of 1.5 inches diameter. Goes through like butter. I think I just want to be done with this blasted headliner and take it all at the edge, not just at the fittings. So I need to cut about 40 linear feet, some in really awkward places like inside galley cabinets. Here is the tool, item "A":

http://www.leevalley.com/en/images/i.../77j8151s1.jpg

Second is to [clear out core around screw holes such that I can replace the wood with epoxy. I am drilling a 7/8 hole, then cleaning out between the skins about another 3/8 inch, the reach of the following item "T"

http://www.leevalley.com/en/images/i...77j5001s02.jpg

I keep reading that people swing an L key to do the above, but I can't see how this wouldn't lead to a broken wrist in non-rotten core. Mushy core sure.

Thanks again. I think I will be in Toronto on Monday, so I'll see what I can hunt down.

Boulter

minaret 30-03-2013 17:45

Re: use 1/4" die grinder with 1/8" shaft tooling??
 
Fein saw for A, router bit chucked into a cordless drill or a laminate trimmer for B.

S/V Pearl 31-03-2013 06:12

Re: use 1/4" die grinder with 1/8" shaft tooling??
 
Searched for variable speed electric die grinder and found a nice Makita,

Makita GD0800C 1/4-Inch Die Grinder - Amazon.com

minaret 31-03-2013 08:25

Re: use 1/4" die grinder with 1/8" shaft tooling??
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by S/V Pearl (Post 1198902)
Searched for variable speed electric die grinder and found a nice Makita,

Makita GD0800C 1/4-Inch Die Grinder - Amazon.com

Nice! Looks and costs the same as one I've had for ten years, but with variable speed. Only problem is size, but if you add a flex shaft...


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