Yelling and Screaming!

[Weyalan]

I am not sure if this is even the correct forum to be posting this in, but anyways...

I recently found myself with a new partner (Yay!) after a long period as a "free agent". I met this lovely lady, who we will call "Lisa" (because that is her name) through sailing. I haven't got enough space to sing her praises, but suffice it to say she is a wonderful girl and also a very good sailor (she is a much better racing helmsman than me, and possibly a better trimmer, just not as physically strong). She has been sailing since she was about 5 yrs old and has won state titles and done pretty well at National Champs in various dinghy classes.

Anyway, as I said; I met her through sailing - we both found ourselves crewing on a mutual friend's boat. To cut a long story short, I plucked up courage and asked her if she would like to sail with me (on my boat) down to a local regatta about 50 miles down the coast, and back, for a long weekend. She said "yes" (Yay again).

I will not bore you with all the gory details, except to say that we had a really great weekend, with everything from 2knots to 42knots of breeze. We sailed my 40' boat, just the 2 of us, from early Satuday morning to late Monday night and had a complete ball. Even when it was blowing 30 to 35 knots with 40+ knot gusts, we were still grinning and having a ball.

Anyway, coming to the point of this story. After the weekend, she thanked me very much for the pleasure. She then told me that she had never been so happy on a boat. I thought that she was just "blowing smoke up my arse" (i.e. just being nice to me), as she had previously been married for 12 years to a guy who was, by all accounts, a very good sailor, and they had owned a yacht together, and crusied extensively, for months at a time. But, and here is the sad bit, she told me that in all those years she never really enjoyed herself sailing because her (now-ex) husband would yell and scream at her if she did something wrong or if things just went wrong...even little things. She told me that for the first day and a half of our cruise she was really nervous, because she was just waiting for me to start yelling at her. She was just so happy that I never even raised my voice, not even once.

I have to say that made me so sad - I mean, this girl can really sail!If a person makes a mistake (and we all do), yelling and screaming doesn't really help at all. Its not like the person doesn't know they made a mistake, and its not as if they aren't trying to fix it.

Anyway, the happy side of the story (for both of us) is that we have been together for a few weeks and are still having heaps of fun (ok, a few weeks isn't very long, but its a good start). We have been sailing lots (we are heading off for 4 or 5 days crusing over Easter), and I still haven't raised my voice.

The point is: Think before you yell & scream. Look for the blame in yourself before you look to blame others.

So true. Any doubts, just hang out at the launch ramp down here on opening day of salmon season. A story was related to me by one of the locals a couple of days ago. A sport boat came into the launch ramp with 3 people on board. A couple, and one male friend. The husband was heard while pulling the boat in screaming profanities at the wife. The third crew member was seen trying very hard to crawl inside his hat. The wife was "instructed" to go get the trailer. A few minutes later, she was seen puling past the ramp, and "backed that trailer down the road and down the ramp at about 20mph, straight as an arrow". The husband again, began screaming profanities at her, and told her the trailer was not where he told her to put it. She got back in the truck, floored it, and her, the truck, and the trailer went bouncing down the road.
OOPS! I think I know who will get the boat in that divorce.

[Wendy V]

I am beginning to think yelling maybe a problem out there, I am going to the womanship school in annapolis next week and their motto is "no yelling here" My husband as not yelled at me once, of course he does value certain body parts. If I had been that woman in the story he would have been attached to the trailer as it bounced done the road.

[Knottygirlz]

Wendy, I agree with you completely! Rick never yells at me on the boat or otherwise, probably for the same reason your husband doesn't yell at you....it seems those parts are well valued! However, we have met, or should I say heard alot of the couples over the years and it just makes me shake my head. Last year we pulled into a marina to wait for Rick's Mom and Dad to join us for the day and a couple in the slip beside us had just purchased their boat and they were having difficulties with some of the canvas. He was yelling and sreaming at her like that was somehow her fault. Rick finally went over and told him problems like they were having were common to all new boaters (so relax!) He helped them with their canvas and they left, As they were walking to their car he was still nattering away. I doubt that woman will ever get any true enjoyment from their boat.

[Joli]

Don't yell!! :kissy: Unless it's blowing force 8 and they can't hear you.

Glad you found a good girl Weyalan and it's a huge bonus if she likes to sail.

[BC Mike]

For the ladies: If he yells at you or anyone under normal situations, if he gets beligerent after a few drinks, if life is always a drama, then find someone else to share your time with. If the guys want to put up with that kind of crap, let them.
You yell if you can not be heard, as in if it is blowing hard, or the motor is running.
Michael

[Rick]

From a male point of view "yelling" is apparently not the same from a lady's point of view. For example, my "wife", "exposa", "mate", "fill in whatever is appropriate for your situation", early in our relationship accused my of "yelling" at her (not on on near the boat...this was a different place for what is worth). Because I was NOT emotionallly accelerated I KNEW that the fact was not true. So, examining just what had occured I realized that it was not the soundd, or necessarily even the intensity of my words, it was HER interpretation of just what constituted "yelling".

Since that time I was able to verify in the presence of others (like her grown up daughters) that I was NOT yelling in several specific examples that my LOVE claimed I had done. O.K. so what? As an engineer I was "correct" and true to the definition of the word "yelling". Yet to her I was at least yelling in her brain. (Wow! am I sensitive, now?). I have witnessed terrible male/female interactions along this line where the vessel safety was seriously compromised (and even damaged) merely because the female (go ahead ladies, take exception to this if you will) took exception to the manner in which they perceived communication from their mate occured and they DAMN WELL were not going to put up with it even if it meant $30,000 worth of damage as a result in order to punish the offender!

Never have I previously obvserved such nasty interaction before between mates even during the Vietnam era of my military service. Not the same as killing someone for survival.

Terrible fights between males even does not compare with such "female" interpretation of "shout" and/or "yell" in her mind. So, just are we to do? Are we to be SO sensitive as to tremble at the insuation of an injustice inferred? Tell me ladies, at least those of you who can identify with such injustices, just how are we males supposed to incite some form of action and appropriate alacrity for the immediate safety of the vessel and crew so as to work for all of us without a "mental" suffering on anyone's part? Fortunately most ladies are not so injured by such verbal inflections and mentally prepared pitfalls.

Oh my oh my, I am happy that most of the females on my crew have been so "mental" yet it is necessary to point out such behavior because not only one has been such a pill.

[BC Mike]

I have experienced the same situation as Rick. You speak with a stern voice when some degree of urgency is required and get accused of yelling. I do not yell, but I have been accused of doing so. Maybe we need Princess Anne on this discussion, she being the one that said " One does not use the same language when addressing a naughty horse, as one uses when opening a shopping mall " I think only the British snooty class should use one in that manner.
Michael

Me three. But I have learned to look at it from a different perspective. I have to say, I am a very soft spoken person. I do not remember the last time I raised me voice. My wife often interprets what I say as yelling at her. I learned to look at it this way. I ask myself Did I want to yell? If the answer was yes, than regardless of the volume of my voice, or even my tone, I was yelling. That does not mean it was not called for, but I do acknowlege that I was yelling. I think it is a guy thing.

[S/V Elusive]

wow - Now *I*'m not sure if I've ever yelled or not. I don't think that I have, but perhaps it was perceived as such. I checked with two of the women sailors that I have sailed with, and they say that I don't (and are willing to sail again with me), and while I haven't checked with Scott, I'm pretty sure I didn't yell at him - I am alive after all.

But good points on perception of yelling and how people interpret voice tone, inflectioin, and volume. I think that guys mainly envision yelling as something that occurs during non-critical times, and "orders / urgent instructions" given during critical times as being NOT yelling.

Der wimmin folk have given their verson (at least a couple of them) and we (guys) should take heed of what they say. Perhaps our definitions don't match?? Mars vs. Venus?

[Alan Wheeler]

I've yelled once, umm well maybe twice, but the second time wasn't as loud. And from then on, I have been learning. I get a little ummm....tense... when a line needs to be made good urgently. Mostly docking in a strong wind. But I learn't (real quick) that if I yell, she drops the line and tells me not to yell. It doens't matter if we are about to crunch into a megapalace of a boat, a Marina pile that could send us to the bottom, or even if my life depended on it. If I yell, she drops the line and I have to apologise before she will pick it up. That learns ya fast.
My frustration as a guy though, is it seems our interpretation of the english language seems to be different to Females. If I say, take the line around the outside, somehow, that doesn't mean take it around the outside. Another one I found was when tacking. OK, let the sheet go, would be my command and I am trying to tail the other sheet in. It's real tuff going and I turn to see she still has the line around the winch. No let if off, right off, take it right off the winch, RIGHT OFF THE WINCH, LET THE !#$%*& LINE OFF TH... OK sorry dear, now if you would kindly pick up the sheet line again and..... In the meantime our tack has gone to custard and I have a genoa wrapped around stay's flogging it and the rig like snot.

It's funny you mention that Wheels. My wife and I were going to a party a few months back. The directions said the driveway was after the 16th left turn. I was happily driving along counting each side street. My wife was counting each left hand curve in the road. When we realized what we were doing, the first question we asked was who wrote the directions? The husband, or the wife. As it turned out, the wife wrote the directions, and she meant the 16th curve, not side street. Perception really is different between men and women. As I am so fond of saying, men and women do not think of different things. They just think of things differently.

[GordMay]

There’s an old management principle that all employee failures are actually those of management - either the employee may have been undertrained, or over-tasked. Either way, it’s management’s fault, when an employee fails at a task.

This principle might be applied to the situation Wheels describes:
”...our interpretation of the English language seems to be different to Females. If I say, take the line around the outside, somehow, that doesn't mean take it around the outside...”

Proper crew training should ensure that the skipper never has to ask a crewmate to perform a task that he/she is unable or unqualified to perform, as desired.

This is one of the reasons that any technical endeavour embraces “jargon”. For instance “Port” and “Starboard” are not merely neat-sounding nautical affectations. They are very specifically descriptive verbal shortcuts, that avoid confusion as to “whose” left/right.

Although nobody appreciates being yelled at. There are times when a commanding (loud) voice is appropriate and necessary. It’s important for both parties to differentiate between the two.

Yelling is done in anger or frustration.

Command declarations are appropriate to denote urgency, or to overcome competing environmental conditions.

Yelling and/or loud (obnoxious) commands are often noticed (by others) in anchoring situations, where the bowman and helmsman are heard screaming back & forth at each other. With appropriate preparation, this unseemly practice is totally unnecessary.

I have a both “hair trigger” temper, and a very low threshold of tolerance for incompetence (as I see it), and have had to moderate my communicative style to accommodate the sensitivities of those around me. This (self-control) is an important part ofmy crew training, and remains a challenge...

FWIW,
Gord May

[Joli]

Alan, easy fix, let her park the thing. We trade off cause I want her to know how to park it and she gets practice putting a 65,000 pound boat in its spot. Far and away docking is our toughest challange.

Picking up moorings we use walkie talkies. The driver doesn't talk, only listens to distance and direction. If the breeze is right we sail on and off the mooring.

Anchoring is far and away the easiest. Head to wind, bleed off speed to zero, keep the bowup, drop the hook, and back her down. We plant it with 1500 RPM and if it doesn't take we haul it up and do it again.

We are both looking forward to the day we get to go cruising and save the dock fees and the hassle of putting the boat on a dock.

[mudnut]

Wayalan,Good on ya mate.Maybe Lisa and yourself have found common ground."Allways a good start"And never forget,"Good admiralds deserve good loving."