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Old 21-06-2006, 22:58   #46
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ahhhhh... you gonna make me blush??? Anyway ... you KNOW what we got from the rescuees.
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Old 21-06-2006, 23:13   #47
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Yep, but you know what they say, you can't fix stupid
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Old 22-06-2006, 14:28   #48
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My opinion on this one is that I am the captain of the vessel and therefore am responsible for everything good or bad that happens on the vessel. So if somebody does something wrong it is not possible for them to be at fault. If I told them to do A and they did B it was still my fault, I clearly did not make it extremely clear what A was or in some way failed to articulate what I wanted done. Could be I chose the wrong crewperson for the job. In any case my boat has one captain. If you do something wrong on it the fault lies with me.

I find a lot of those people I see becoming angry when docking or talking about what a dire state a particular docking experience was often are the ones who do the yelling and justify it. My experience is that it is hard to kill people at docking speed so what we're really talking about is boat damage. Boat damage is not the end of the world. I am about to refinish my topsides today after work and really regretting the idea because I know im going to put the boat into the dock and put a scratch on it and care more.

Still I will endeavor to remember that when I do it is nobody's fault but my own and that if she were a commercial working boat I wouldnt care if there was a streak down the hull. Guess we're ghetto and not yachtie but friends of mine who sail with other friends of mine usually point out that their experience on Estrella was a more stress free one than they have had before.

Cheers :-)
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Old 22-06-2006, 15:43   #49
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Who Knows?

The problem with being responsible for everything and having others do their bit is actually knowing what THEY know and not make assumptions.

You might be coming to a dock and a crew critter offers to assist in docking. They tell you that they know what to do. What does that mean?

You may have a strategy for tying up the boat... for example having them jump from mid ship and tack a wrap with a line tied to the mid ship cleat to stop the boat - assuming there is a pile or cleat which would align. And then.. perhaps fend off the bow and tie the bow line and finally do the stern and fix the spring line. How do you communicate this all? Well in advance? What if someone has to thing on the feet because something unforeseen happens?

Do you want crew critters who are like robots who don't think at all and ONLY follow pre rehearsed procedures? I don't.

But knowing someone's sailing smarts may take some time so you need to be careful about doling out important tasks to crew critters. Trimming a sail? Who cares this means you go too slow if they can't trim it right. Messing up navigation and you might run aground and mess up your keel. Pooring line handling can mess up your topsides or someone else's topsides.

You just don't know what they don't know and what they do know. People will not tell you what they don't know...

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Old 22-06-2006, 15:51   #50
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Truth be told I usually assess the situation prior to docking and come up with a plan that I can execute alone. Then I think of things the crew can do that wont have a large impact on this plan. Guess I dock single handed and benefit from the help of crew when available. I guess I just try not to make assumptions and if somebody is given a job and they do it wrong and I assumed they wouldnt do it wrong I dont get angry with them since I see it as my responsibility to not have assumed they would know what to do.

I single handed my first boat a lot due to not being able to find crew and that has helped me. My hairiest docking experience was when I couldnt get crew to take Estrella out and decided I would go single handed. Obstinate that I was going to go for a sail even if it was blowing 25kt in my slip and I couldnt get crew.

Usually I could turn the boat around once I backed her out but this wind was too strong and I blew sideways down the finger until I realized I was going to end up on the shore and stopped fighting. I backed her out easy as pie raised the mizzen and let out the jib. I sailed on a broad reach out of the bay with two older friends of mine waving (and watching intently) once out on the river I realized I Was overpowered with the mizzen and jib and had a nice couple gybes before I quickly beat back to the bay.

It was a lot of fun but definitely sketchy. Had I crashed I would have had nobody to blame but myself ;-)

The Zen approach works for me, perhaps not suitable for everyone.
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Old 22-06-2006, 16:16   #51
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UHF Radios

To me the problem is that if the crew are doing their job then they are facing away from the skipper and some distance from him, while there is a considerable amount of background noise (from the engine), particularly near the skipper.
Hence it is difficult for the skipper to convey instructions and impossible for the crew to reply (discuss them).
Yelling is one way to solve this problem as is training, experience and set procedures but these are not really practical in the real world of small crew and transient guests, particularly if one wants to remain friends.
My experience of yelling at crew is that they will do the exact opposite of the instruction.
My solution was to have a somewhat scruffy boat and lots of fenders! One of the joys of ferro cement.
Oh, and other boats that we tied up near were always very helpful.
A little thought and experience eventually smoothed it all out.
I have heard of some boats getting a bunch of those small UHF radios for the crew and giving instructions that way.
These days a hands free setup would work even better.
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Old 22-06-2006, 17:15   #52
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Major yelling

I managed to be on the receiving end of major yelling last Sunday. As the person in charge of equipment for the sailing fleet I was in search of a mark that showed up missing. I found it near the shore. As I coasted in towards the mark a lady from the farm type property came out towards me yelling from the get go. She did not want anyone near the shore as there were nesting Grebes nearby. She did not introduce hearself or speak politely for a nano second. She only momentarily stopped the tirade to change gears and hurl further abuse and swearing at me. She entered the water up to her waste to bang on the boat and tell me to start the engine and F off. I told her that would be dangerous and I would push off with a pole at which point she took off in search of a camera ( and possibly gun ) and quoted obscure laws that I had broken and that The RCMP and a $250,000- fine would be after me. At no time did I act threatening in any way. Others who have ventured near have heard this before. To quote the lady all of us boaters are a bunch of no good eplicit deleteds. She caused more fluster to the birds by her presence than my quiet drift in. I will wait a month and try again to retrieve my mark ( if it is still there ) with a police escort. This lady was so enraged I actually feared she would do something stupid. Rarely does one meet such hostility, made my day.
Michael
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Old 22-06-2006, 18:28   #53
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I have to deal with similar situations every day in my profession. I do not yell. Never have, and people seem not to yell at me for very long. The real issue here, is, as I said earlier, people yelling as an expression of power, not to fulfill a need to be heard in a loud environment. Skippers that yell at their crew seem to have a different crew every time they go out. Skippers that demand skill and order of their crew seem to win races with the same crew week after week.
AdamY, I agree with you that the ultimate responsibility for everything that happens on the boat, to the boat, or as a result of the actions of the boat, falls completely on the skipper. As a result, a certain expectation of the crew to handle their positions effectively is reasonable. WHen those expectations are not met, it is well within reason to reprimand the crew, but demeaning a person has never proven to be an effective method of improving performance.
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Old 23-06-2006, 10:45   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kai Nui
WHen those expectations are not met, it is well within reason to reprimand the crew, but demeaning a person has never proven to be an effective method of improving performance.
Yeah I can agree with that, I guess I dont look at it as a reprimand. Of course I dont often have crew at all but if I expect to have them crew again some time I would tell them what wasnt done. I almost always have a quick post mortem when I dock. Even if all goes well I'll think aloud about what might have gone better and what went well. I heap praise on the crew at every opportunity. If somebody ties a line wrong or some such thing I'll show them the right way but none of it is admonition or what I would consider reprimand just instruction. My ultimate goal being not to make the person feel badly or extract regret or apology from them but to show them how to do it correctly.

Though again this might not be applicable to people who rely on crew and I am more or less a single/short hander. Kristina is my only crew 99% of the time and she makes few errors and when she does there is no reprimand just the post mortem to which she has grown accustomed.

Then again the boat has been in the yard for 3 months and I havent had her sailable for 10 so I shouldnt talk ;-)

Cheers,
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Old 23-06-2006, 16:31   #55
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With crew vs a spouse, it is a whole different situation. With crew, I can tell them "steer more to port" or "take in that line another turn", but with my wife, I have found it much more effective to simply tell her the result I am looking for. When she is steering, and I tell her "leave that bouy to port", if she is not steering far enough to starboard, the only thing I can say to her is "We will not clear it on this course" (We have one boat with a wheel, and one with a tiller. This often confuses her) Any more specific instruction will result in frustration on her part. If I were foolish enough to yell, I would be steering myself for the rest of a VERY long day.
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Old 24-06-2006, 19:52   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sundari
I can tie a bowline, but Scott has to tell me R-E-A-L S-L-O-W
I can;t seem to tie one at all, unless I sit with the practice ropes for a couple of hours and lately I just haven't had the time. Rick has been very patient trying to show me how to do it. He'll show me really slowly, walk me through the steps and even dorect my hands, but to no avail . I did memorize the little saying very quickly though. "The mouse comes out of the hole and goes around the tree and then back into the hole" Problem is my mouse apparently goes back into the hole using the wrong freakin door!

Lori, Rick and Shadow
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Old 24-06-2006, 20:45   #57
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You are probably making a left handed loop for a right handed knot. When you start the loop, flip it over, then try tying the knot.
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Old 24-06-2006, 21:21   #58
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pirate Tieing one on

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knottygirlz
I can;t seem to tie one at all
Lori, Rick and Shadow

Man.. I have NO problem tieing one on ... What you need to do is invite a bunch of sailors with alcohol over .. they will help ... .... muahahhahaaaaa
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Old 25-06-2006, 05:41   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kai Nui
You are probably making a left handed loop for a right handed knot. When you start the loop, flip it over, then try tying the knot.
I'm sure that's the case. Rick will watch me and tell me to flip it over so I do and it still doesn't turn out.....mind you I have ended up with some very fine reef knots I will eventually get it and be able to consistantly make a bowlin if for no pother reason than I am too stubborn to be beat by a piece of rope.

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Old 25-06-2006, 05:55   #60
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Grog's Animated Knots - Knots for boating, climbing, and fishing with clear animations.

Goto: “Grog's Boating Knots Index”: http://www.animatedknots.com/indexboating.php

Specifically, the “Bowline”:
http://www.animatedknots.com/bowline...matedknots.com

And note the variations:
Normal, Mirror, Inverted, & Rotated.

HTH,
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