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Old 15-05-2012, 07:02   #31
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Re: World Arc with 2 toddlers... Crazy?

My wife and I are asked repeatedly what crusing with toddlers is like when the conversation turns to sailing and we mention our little ones...

I ask the sailors in the group if they have ever single handed an ocean passage...

...then ask them to imagine the energy required to do that and also to help tend the kids, and that can be what it is like. One of you has the primary responsibility of the children, the other has the primary responsiblity of the boat. There is overlap of course but generally both of you have to be on call 24/7 to tend with issues with either kids or boat.

Once a long passage is over, day sailing or coastal hopping with children and passages under 7 days are a breeze and very enjoyable.

Is it worth it? yes.

Are long passages difficult? yes, much more exhausting than single handing or sailing as a couple.

It would be a lie for me to say I "enjoyed" the last passage with the kids from Cape Town to Rio, it was just bloody exhausting. Would I do it again, yes. Luckily we are in the Caribbean and wont be going through the canal for many years yet, especially since we are on the hard in Trinidad likely for the next year while we top up the kitty. So the next long passages will be after the youngest is over 5 and the eldest 8, which will make everything so much easier.

I think most people do not "choose" to go sailing with toddlers. It is just that may be the time in their life they are able to go sailing or they were already sailing and the kids showed up...
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Old 15-05-2012, 07:07   #32
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Re: World Arc with 2 toddlers... Crazy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by foolishsailor View Post

(...)

Sorry for the bluntness, I just feel that the general "go now" consensus of this forum is not appropriate in this particular situation and you should really slow down and consider your motivations and skill sets...
If sailing is as dangerous as you put it, then why do you sail?

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Old 15-05-2012, 07:11   #33
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Re: World Arc with 2 toddlers... Crazy?

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If sailing is as dangerous as you put it, then why do you sail?

b.
and the point is? in relation to this topic?
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Old 15-05-2012, 07:11   #34
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Re: World Arc with 2 toddlers... Crazy?

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If sailing is as dangerous as you put it, then why do you sail?

b.
I think one has to consider measurable risks and definable dangers. Neither of which the op would be able to foresee. While the op could grab a boat and go sailing on a lake or harbor without experience and come back without much else than a sore head from the boom, the risks involved are substantially greater to someone travelling across the pacific.

His comments appear to be simply separating the "go now" attitude that does creep around here and common sense.
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Old 15-05-2012, 07:15   #35
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Re: World Arc with 2 toddlers... Crazy?

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Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
If sailing is as dangerous as you put it, then why do you sail?

b.
Because I love it.

Why do you sail?
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Old 15-05-2012, 07:18   #36
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Re: World Arc with 2 toddlers... Crazy?

if y'all recall, bumfuzzles werent experienced when setting out in their catamaran years ago--they may just have something good to say to these folks....like, they wont die...yet....
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Old 15-05-2012, 07:25   #37
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Re: World Arc with 2 toddlers... Crazy?

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if y'all recall, bumfuzzles werent experienced when setting out in their catamaran years ago--they may just have something good to say to these folks....like, they wont die...yet....
yes but the were not dragging two kids along.

by all means risk you own life,and that of your partner but bringing small bundles of soft tissue into the equation is pure stupidity if you have no previous experiance
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Old 15-05-2012, 08:12   #38
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Re: World Arc with 2 toddlers... Crazy?

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Originally Posted by foolishsailor View Post
Because I love it.

Why do you sail?
Because I love it.

In such a case, dangers do not count, do they?

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Old 15-05-2012, 08:17   #39
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Re: World Arc with 2 toddlers... Crazy?

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Because I love it.

In such a case, dangers do not count, do they?

b.
as much as we all on cf value your opinion barney,unless you have actually sailed with children of any age on long ocean passages,your opinion,and subjective comments are not really helping the discussion
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Old 15-05-2012, 08:27   #40
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Re: World Arc with 2 toddlers... Crazy?

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Because I love it.

In such a case, dangers do not count, do they?

b.
A parent who loves their children more than their own ego would never allow their own needs to put their children in unnecessary danger.

As Atoll stated, if you have not sailed with little children you can not possibly know how easy it is to severly hurt them, or for them to hurt themselves while passage making - even in conditions that are not extreme.

With knowledge and experience that comes with bluewater miles and also by sailing with children on smaller excursions you learn the issues that need to be addressed and can easily prevent problems.

To jump into the deep end without experience and an unprepared boat is hugely irresponsible and inviting disaster.

Notice that no one is saying not to sail with small children, or not to cross oceans with small children. What is beaing said, at least what I am saying is that the plan the OP originally had was irresponsible and dangerous to his children.
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Old 15-05-2012, 09:20   #41
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Re: World Arc with 2 toddlers... Crazy?

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Originally Posted by foolishsailor View Post
A parent who loves their children more than their own ego would never allow their own needs to put their children in unnecessary danger.

As Atoll stated, if you have not sailed with little children you can not possibly know how easy it is to severly hurt them, or for them to hurt themselves while passage making - even in conditions that are not extreme.

With knowledge and experience that comes with bluewater miles and also by sailing with children on smaller excursions you learn the issues that need to be addressed and can easily prevent problems.

To jump into the deep end without experience and an unprepared boat is hugely irresponsible and inviting disaster.

Notice that no one is saying not to sail with small children, or not to cross oceans with small children. What is beaing said, at least what I am saying is that the plan the OP originally had was irresponsible and dangerous to his children.
When mine were aged 4-5-7-8 a week was a lot on the water. Four hours was too much without land time. Understandably, we only had a 24 ft trailer sailer back then. But they sure get bored quickly.
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Old 15-05-2012, 11:28   #42
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Re: World Arc with 2 toddlers... Crazy?

We are sailing locally with a toddler until next year when we will cut the dock lines. I have to say that the delay in the completion of our refit has been a blessing. Even in benign conditions you can't get around the fact that the bumps that go along with sailing are magnified 100 times for our little one. The 25 degree of heel which makes it a challenge to move around the boat for the bg people makes it impossible for the little one to move- she can't grab the hand holds we can- both because of height and lack of upper body strength. The times when we've been made uncomfortable with some bumping and bashing to windward would have made for an air born toddler because she only weighs 28 pounds. Obviously magnified because we are on a mono but if you think you will escape all movement in a multihull you are in for a surprise.

We are going cruising with a toddler but we are not doing the same routes we would without a little one on board. There will be time enough to do some bigger passages when she is 4+ which seems to be the age when most boat kids get a bit more sturdy and secure on their feet and on the boat. So for us, a toddler on board means the Caribbean. We would also cruise the Med or Thailand if our boat were there. We just have to wait a bit longer but the joy of having her with us far outweighs any accommodations we have to make for her.
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Old 15-05-2012, 11:34   #43
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Re: World Arc with 2 toddlers... Crazy?

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as much as we all on cf value your opinion barney(...)
Thanks for letting me know, on behalf of all CF, what you think of my opinion.

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Old 15-05-2012, 11:52   #44
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Re: World Arc with 2 toddlers... Crazy?

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A parent who loves their children more than their own ego would never allow their own needs to put their children in unnecessary danger.(...)
In such a case, this parent, should NOT go sailing.

Alas, not all parents have the same perception of apparent or actual dangers, neither such dangers are absent from everyday shore-based lives!

Similarly, not all boats create the same sort of platform for sailing with kids! A cat is probably the best platform one can imagine - mitigating some of the effort as well as some of the risks.

Please note my earlier post up the thread - I too said that sailing 2+2 would be a hard, maybe too hard job for the parents. I also mentioned where my opinion came from.

The people I mentioned in my post sailed a cat round the world, with two kids, one of them born half way into the voyage. Upon departure, they had very limited experience. They were one of the happiest families I ever met. Yes, they employed people to support them on passages - usually 2 people.

So there is truly not all that much difference in what we are saying about the sailing part, is there.

If we were all limited to speak out of our own and personal experience only and exclusively, this would be a very dry forum.

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Old 16-05-2012, 02:21   #45
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In my experience kids handle their age divided by 2 in hours before being bored.

OP - one word -madness. Can I ask how you even formed that idea in the first place ?

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