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Old 16-05-2012, 16:08   #16
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Re: Womanship ?

As a retired Delivery Skipper, I trained up a fair number of female crew and must say I always found them to be attentive, focussed and generally easier to get on with than their male counterparts. They were particularly valuable in tight situations like heavy seas, engine or gear failure and unforeseen events that always crop up at the worst posslible time. This made up for their lack of physical strength in most cases.
Since moving ashore, I've taught skiing as a retirement activity and found that some women are more comfortable in a predominantly female class while others want to be the only woman in an all male class. Much of it has to do with their learning style, I believe. The old, 'watcher, doer, feeler, thinker' types.
Sailing seems to attract the doer, feeler types and I've found there are particular teaching techniques that are more successfully adapted to their learning styles.
The main objective in both activities is to have fun... everybody is nervous when starting a new activity so the instructors job, after making it as safe as he or she can, is to ensure that everyone is enjoying themselves and the learning experience. If it is all business, then you might learn the basics but it won't be recalled as an enjoyable experience.
Women seem to be more willing to give each other emotional support in all female groups of skiers, I've found. Whereas in male groups the support is more challenge support. On the water women appear to be much more focussed on exactly my expectations for performance than how to do the job mechanically.
My comments are only those from personal observation and experience... my guess is that some women would prefer a female instructor if only to up the chances that the female instructor would more intuitively understand how they preferred to be taught.
I feel I've been really fortunate to have found a couple of activities that I enjoy and have been able to pass on what knowledge I've amassed over the years to others so they can get as much of a kick out of life as I have... cheers, Capt Phil
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Old 23-05-2012, 12:10   #17
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Re: Womanship ?

I'm sorry to say I have heard similar stories about Womanship. They used to be a good group there in Annapolis. Anyway, there are many fine sailing schools in the Annapolis area--Annapolis Sailing School and Chesapeake Sailing School. Many times the classes are taught by women and while the classes aren't restricted to women, I enjoyed my classes at CSS. There is Sistership located in the BVIs but I am not sure of what they are like now. Located in Nanny Cay in Tortola.

Best of luck. There are plenty of good schools out there--don't feel intimidated by the guys, you would be learning just like they are!!!

Capt. Jeanette
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Old 23-05-2012, 12:48   #18
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Re: Womanship ?

I think its kind of insulting to women that anyone would think they would need a special class just for them. There are a number of sailing courses that accept men and women, which treat them as having the same amount of intelligence and abilities...which they truly have in my experience of having taught sailing to both men and women a number of years ago.

A good course with good instructors will make sure everyone learns, is treated well and nobody is intimidated. I think it's quite unnecessary for the sexes to be divided up with a good sailing and boating course.
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Old 23-05-2012, 19:22   #19
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Re: Womanship ?

I don't think it is at all insulting for women if you listen to what they want in terms of a teaching environment. Trying to hammer folks in to the hole the instructor thinks they belong in is not the way to make them comfortable.
If a woman is more comfortable learning in an all woman class, then let it happen... if her comfort level is in a mixed sex class, that is great too. I've taught both and you are dead right... a good instructor allows every one to learn and the intimidation factor needs to be very low... Cheers Capt Phil
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Old 23-05-2012, 20:55   #20
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Re: Womanship ?

My wife paid for a Womanship course, and she and the others got off the boat halfway to their destination. It was inconvenient to exit the yacht in the Carolinas, but it was better than continuing on a trip that was poorly planned, prepared, and executed. She did not get any money back, and has nothing good to say about her experience.

Later on she sailed around the world on our catamaran so she did fine after abandoning Womanship.
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Old 24-05-2012, 01:34   #21
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Re: Womanship ?

It is a sad state of affairs, but I believe that a woman specific training course is a good idea. When Ian and I do any training, we try to do them seperately if possible. Friends have had the experience of (male) teachers who teach to the male, believing the woman is there to keep him company, and is not really interested.
I am currently doing a Coxswains course and one of only two female students in a class of 15. The teacher is great, and understands that the questions I ask usually have a different slant to the blokes.
My Father used to advise me to "Learn all you can." Well it is much easier to do so in the company of women, and without the presence of my lovely Ian!

Cheers

Marie
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Old 24-05-2012, 01:47   #22
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My gf did an all female dinghy course - 4 students. They unilaterally agreed the learning environment was better for them without any men "helping" them out.

Srafina has the opposite happening. Her male SO is learning more off the boat from her. Its not personal but it is personal.

Everyone needs to pick the learning environment that works for them.
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Old 24-05-2012, 01:50   #23
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Re: Womanship ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kindred Spirits View Post
It is a sad state of affairs, but I believe that a woman specific training course is a good idea. When Ian and I do any training, we try to do them seperately if possible. Friends have had the experience of (male) teachers who teach to the male, believing the woman is there to keep him company, and is not really interested.
I am currently doing a Coxswains course and one of only two female students in a class of 15. The teacher is great, and understands that the questions I ask usually have a different slant to the blokes.
My Father used to advise me to "Learn all you can." Well it is much easier to do so in the company of women, and without the presence of my lovely Ian!

Cheers

Marie
And some of us know that you have just completed your first "single" cruise.

Coops.
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Old 24-05-2012, 15:32   #24
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Re: Womanship ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kindred Spirits View Post
Friends have had the experience of (male) teachers who teach to the male, believing the woman is there to keep him company, and is not really interested.
But to be fair (and a tad argumentative? - hey, it's the internet ) I suspect that in (very?) many cases that is true (woman there to keep a him company - and is not really interested). Given that you can't teach someone who doesn't even want to learn no surprise that "woman no learnee" becomes the default expectation.

I have no problem with the idea of women only classes, as (apart from the exceptions) men and women do learn in different ways - and for that a differing approach simply makes the process easier / more fun.

I would also suggest that a woman who does genuinely want to learn for herself (not simply to keep a him happy) do so on a seperate course to him, whether that be single sex or mixed (in the latter case just have to make clear that you are there to learn, and whilst no need to become "One of the boys" - nonetheless in a male dominated environment have to be prepared to "take no sh#t" and to do that means often not being shy about dishing it out ....both men and women be competitive creatures - men simply more transparent about it than women). A seperate course to a him means can ask questions with making self (or him!) look dumb.....albeit nothing wrong with that - it is what you are paying for!
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Old 25-05-2012, 09:18   #25
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Re: Womanship ?

Very perceptive, DOJ... can't tell you how many times I've had the woman along as 'company' in a class a guy was taking but on several occasions the lady outshone the guy in picking up the basics and excelling at the sport (both sailing and skiing). Usually pissed off the guy! I hadn't looked at the issue of transparency of competitiveness. I do know that guys, and women who jump in to their class, tend to be more overtly competitive, though... good thing we are all different otherwisw life would be dull. Capt Phil
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Old 25-05-2012, 09:48   #26
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Re: Womanship ?

What I thought this was about:


Point: In any class, students learn as much from their peers in the class as from the teacher. Having an all women class should make meaningful interaction between students more open and even, and from that perspective should be more effective learning environment. I think almost that same result could occur by just taking a class without husband in same class however (as this can mess up the interaction dynamic for many women).
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Old 05-06-2012, 23:38   #27
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Re: Womanship ?

Have to add a funny story. I have taught a number of women to sail and had a few on board once for a lesson. I was showing them how to put up the jib and explained the process of 'hanking on' the sail when one gal asked me if when you removed the sail was it considered 'hanking off'.

We all had a good laugh at that one.
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Old 06-06-2012, 07:38   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captjeanette
Have to add a funny story. I have taught a number of women to sail and had a few on board once for a lesson. I was showing them how to put up the jib and explained the process of 'hanking on' the sail when one gal asked me if when you removed the sail was it considered 'hanking off'.

We all had a good laugh at that one.
That is funny! You made my day!!
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Old 06-06-2012, 07:54   #29
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Re: Womanship ?

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when you removed the sail was it considered 'hanking off'.
My wife boots down her computer.
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Old 06-06-2012, 10:05   #30
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Re: Womanship ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by captjeanette View Post
Have to add a funny story. I have taught a number of women to sail and had a few on board once for a lesson. I was showing them how to put up the jib and explained the process of 'hanking on' the sail when one gal asked me if when you removed the sail was it considered 'hanking off'.

We all had a good laugh at that one.
Well, they say that things on a boat are better if they serve a dual purpose........
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