Update from the Sea of Cortez

[wizorian]

Hi, could you please PM me your blog too.. I am currently saving to pay for my adventure. I bought the boat already and its waiting for me in Canada. Im currently in Brisbane. I just cant wait to start my new life out there!!

[DeepFrz]

I posted some crime statistics on a thread like this once and got run over by the "its so nice here, everyone is wonderful" crowd. More and more tourists are getting killed, raped, robbed and assaulted as the Mexican society becomes more and more violent.

[Richard5]

Originally Posted by cwyckham

I hope you don't feel personally slammed in the controversy, chebba. We all appreciate your story and don't think you did anything wrong.

The way Richard's story was worded came off a bit racist (or at least extreme in lumping a whole town together) to me too, but only in the sense that it seems like he's saying that the whole town killed his kin because he was a gringo and were all complicit (the bit about being served food and looking to the eyes of the murderers, etc). Came off a bit extreme, let's say. Maybe he worded poorly, I don't know.

I appreciate your allowance that perhaps I misspoke, I assure you I did not.

This "town" was a gathering of 3 Mexican families over ruled by Ceasar, the patriarch. It was Ceasar and his 3 sons who found themselves with newly acquired wealth. Where this wealth came from they could not, or would not, say. Yet, how interesting that they now possessed what Uncle Ed's had written about and now they cannot account for how they have what they have no matter how out of place it seemed. In any case, how dare anyone here to say what we found, and what I have said here, is not factual. I did not speak of any "town" or of a generalized character of the state. All I mentioned was of certain people in a certain place. That plus other experiences I have had in Baja, lead me to believe the whole territory is rife with corruption and lawlessness.

It is your perogitive, as cruiser, to disbelieve my accounts. But do so on your own accord. Do not cast aspersions on my true and factual accounts. If ever I return to Mex, whether by land or sea, I sleep with both eye open.

BTW: I have been as far south as Z town. I have found the further south I get, the 'better' I am treated. 'Better' is relative.

[Richard5]

Originally Posted by DeepFrz

I posted some crime statistics on a thread like this once and got run over by the "its so nice here, everyone is wonderful" crowd. More and more tourists are getting killed, raped, robbed and assaulted as the Mexican society becomes more and more violent.

The best accounting I can provide is that sea-based cruisers have different experiences. One, they don't stay long; two, they are physically isolated. It's like going to Disneyland on a rainy day and deciding it sucks based on a single event.

Funny, a couple I knew who had traveled extensively by boat in Mex (25 yrs) changed their tune after they traded their boat for an RV. Their reasoning was to see from the land which they had formerly seen from sea. They ended up buying a house in Colorado and finding a living there rather than return to Mex.

Again, this all is anecdotal. Draw from it what you will. I will never tread foot in Mex, land or sea, with eyes closed. Mexico is a failed state. A failed state, unable to rid itself of corruption yet with the highest number of millionaires per capita.

[Richard5]

Originally Posted by terminalcitygrl

What a horrible pile of racist garbage! It is sad what happened to your uncle, whatever that was exactly, it sounds like he was a generous man. But your wild accusations and assumptions here are completely out of touch with reality. Are there bad, racist people in Mexico? Yes. Just as there are in every country unfortunately. But the kind and generous folks far, far outnumber them. Everywhere.

This really bothers me. WTF does this have to do with being racist??? I call them as I see them. I have friends of various ethnicity including Mexican. They also call them as they see them. It really rubs me that you think I am being racist. Bloody hell, my Mex friends speak more so about this than I do, I am oft taken aback by what they say. Are you willing to discount what they say of their own? Of course not, you not know them yet there it is. They speak of the devils out of that country of their own orgin.

"White guilt" is all I can surmise.

[zeehag]

hackiepitts--od harbor is closed for overnight anchoring at this time due to the many thefts.

chebba's story happens also in los angeles, in oakland, and in many other cities. does that mean that everyone who travels to those cities receives same treatment??? no, it doesnt.
does tha tmean chebba''s story is bad??? no--it means this is a universal occurance. i snot just mexico, as folks seem to think.
does the story mean he i s racist??
not necessarily. it means that on our planet there are bad people with bad actions.
does chebba''s story mean that cruisers should not come to a beautiful place to visit??
no, it doesnt.
for every chebba story, there are many many stories to the contrary. would i cruise lost angeles??? i used to live and work there. i survived, as do many others.

is chebba's story a reason to not sail in mexico??
NO.
the story is same as that of many souls in usa.
why are folks so quick to listen to the bad tales of a place and diss the good tales. mexico has a lot to offer -- tourists are welcomed and treated decently by most of the souls in residence in mexico, and many usa expats live here in peace.
many sailors and wannabe sailors cruise here every season. very few have horror stories.
i have found mexico a pleasant and beautiful place to cruise. i have found the people friendly and helpful. most are happy in their lives.
if one desires not to cruise mexico--stay away.
meanwhile--now i make my coffee and prepare for the newly restarted vhf net for cruisers.
have a great day and smooth sailing.

[zeehag]

as for san francisco--looks like sf is a place not to sail ----

Heads Up !!!!! Here in the SF bay area (Alameda to be specific) There has been a huge increase in marina related theft activity. Even the parking lots are becoming targets more and more. Boats, motors, electronics, hardware, flag poles, life rings etc. It doesn't even matter if it locked, bolted down, glued. If the thieves thinks its worth a buck they'll take it. Recently a boat owner walking his dog in my marina noticed an outboard motor in a dock cart hidden in some bushes by a house. Apparently the thieves had gone to get a car and stashed it. Over 18 motors have vanished in a short time. Another boat owner had the wheels stolen right off her car parked directly under a light directly in front of the harbor masters office. I have since taken the time to replace my locks with bigger, better ones and removed all items from the deck and cockpit of my boat that would tempt a thief. A month ago my car was broke into. I make a habit out of making sure nothing is left out in the open and still they broke in and rifled though my glove box and console compartment. I'm sure these type of activities are happening all over the country so please be more aware of who is hanging around and don't allow tailgaters to follow you through the gate. If you see anyone that looks remotely suspicious or out of place, let them know you are aware they are there. Take a cell phone picture, write down a license plate # and don't hesitate to call the Harbor master or even the police. No one is going to protect our belongings for us. All we have is each other in our collective boating communities so be aware of who is coming and going. Thanks

mebbe , as a result of this posting on a different forum, sf should be avoided like plague....ye think?????

[chebba]

I just don't get it Zeehag. I tried to simply warn to be careful. for that you indicate I may be racist with you stating about me being a racist - "not necessarily". where do you get the right to indicate that I might be racist? what a thing to imply about someone you know nothing about. why do you stretch reality and use it to be sarcastic in an attempt to make a point as indicated in your last posting? A point about the safety in Mexico. I never said that no one should cruise in Mexico. just always be aware of dangers. the only important thing for me at this point is the fact that I was not racist and I did not put a smear on someone just because it's an open forum. Reservem ad hominum. that's a debate error. that means someone takes the argument and turns it into an attack on a person. you are using sarcasm, smears and debate errors. why? why not just agree that Mexico and especially the Sea of Cortez is an extremely beautiful place and the people are mostly kind and generous but there are dangers and there is a need for security?

[zeehag]

Originally Posted by chebba

I just don't get it Zeehag. I tried to simply warn to be careful. for that you indicate I may be racist with you stating about me being a racist - "not necessarily". where do you get the right to indicate that I might be racist? what a thing to imply about someone you know nothing about. why do you stretch reality and use it to be sarcastic in an attempt to make a point as indicated in your last posting? A point about the safety in Mexico. I never said that no one should cruise in Mexico. just always be aware of dangers. the only important thing for me at this point is the fact that I was not racist and I did not put a smear on someone just because it's an open forum. Reservem ad hominum. that's a debate error. that means someone takes the argument and turns it into an attack on a person. you are using sarcasm, smears and debate errors. why? why not just agree that Mexico and especially the Sea of Cortez is an extremely beautiful place and the people are mostly kind and generous but there are dangers and there is a need for security?

for what it is worth---please quote the comment I made regarding alleged racism on your part. i never said that.

i agree we should all be careful. one doesnt walk around in lost angeles without guard being active. same with any other locale on this planet. is a shame that this isnt appreciated by all.

there is danger in all parts of this planet. doesnt mean we should run around carefree and without concern for our health and well being.

it also doesnt mean that we should carry guns or weaponry while we travel.

it doesnt mean we need to attack anyone for their wordings. i didnt realize i was being sarcastic, as i do not practice sarcasm. sarcasm is a form of abusive behavior.


i do not understand why YOU feel i attacked you. i did not--i verbalized support of your predicament. is a shame to have happened. i hope your recuperation is complete.


i added my posting about sf bay as an example of the bad stuff happening on this planet and the ridiculousness, a sit were, of avoidance just because ..... we ALL need to be aware of situations which surround us.
did chebba do wrong?? hail no.
is chebba racist--only he and gods know that--is not my place to judge those i do not know in person.
is this world violent?? hail yes. i never said world was not so. be careful out here.


i do not know why you target me for calling you names , as i did not do so. be wise an d follow care in all parts of life and living.

smooth sailing.

[Boatguy30]

Originally Posted by DeepFrz

I posted some crime statistics on a thread like this once and got run over by the "its so nice here, everyone is wonderful" crowd. More and more tourists are getting killed, raped, robbed and assaulted as the Mexican society becomes more and more violent.

when I was cruising in my 20s w/ no kids this kind of thing did not bother me.
BUT, I think you do need to look at the number. you are probably WAY more likely to be killed overseas cruising or traveling than living in even a relatively dangerous city.

anyway, I don't have exact figures, but violent crime in the US is greater than that of other developed nations but orders of 10 times less than developing countries.

something to think about......

[Bash]

Originally Posted by "Richard5

Make no mistake, dear cruiser, you are only tolerated for your wealth. Drop your guard for a second and you will be robbed or more.

Such negativity reflects more on the tourist than the destination.

I make multiple trips to Baja every year, sometimes sailing, but mostly diving and sea kayaking. I take students there once a year, and conduct a significant portion of my research there.

The university program I run spends more than $40,000 in Baja annually. While I'm aware how much my business is appreciated by the local community, especially under current economic conditions, I can state unequivocally that the welcome my students and staff receive is genuine. The people of Baja are proud of their land and the society that has formed around their unique environment. Their generosity is legendary, as is their eagerness to establish friendships. When an acquaintance in Baja calls you "Amigo," it means something.

It's troubling to hear someone who claims to be a cruiser warn other cruisers not to "drop your guard." Travel through any destination that way, in any country, and you will never cultivate friendships--all you'll end up with are encounters.

I'm currently teaching a class that will ultimately accompany me to Baja. Although students sign up for my class to learn about the ecology, the most important thing I teach them is how to be respectful travelers. If they learn anything in my class, it's that the more respect they show--genuine respect--the more they will be shown.

All cruisers would do well to learn the same lesson.

[senormechanico]

What I am about to say happened in 1993, so it may not still be relevant.

We anchored in Magdalena Bay and after volunteering to fix several electronic items in Man of War Cove, I was invited to sit on a front porch and drink "Muchas Cervesas".
(That's also where I was given my senormechanico moniker by a grateful recipient of my electronic work)
It was a chance to visit and work on my Spanish which I hadn't used much since junior high school.
After a few Tecates, I said, "No gracias", but they insisted by opening another and pressing it into my hands.

I sipped them one after another for what must have been 4 hours.

Several men were eager to talk with me and wanted to polish their English.
We had a good time talking about lots of things, the vast majority of it in Spanish with hand gestures.

One man sitting across from me was very quiet the whole time, but slowly moved closer as others got up to take a pee from all the cervesas being consumed.

Finally, he sat right next to me, cowering a bit.
I asked him gently, "Que es la problema?"
He said, "Senor, I want to ask a question, is that OK?"
I said, "Of course, ask anything you want."

What he said next, still brings trembling and tears to my eyes as I think about it.

He said, "Do all men in the United States carry guns and often kill people?"

I tried not to show my shock and quickly answered, "No! Where did you hear that?"
He said, "From the CNN TV" (They had a satellite translator in the village which gave them a local area VHF TV reception).

I said, some people in the US are bad, but most of them are good.
I then asked him if he had any bad people in his village.
He said, "Yes but most of them are good."

I explained that most news programs run the "If it bleeds, it leads" theory to sell programming, and how "Fear sells".

He was greatly relieved to hear that.
I gave him a hug.

Then I got up and took the biggest pee of my life.

[terminalcitygrl]

Just to be crystal clear, I quoted Richard5's original post and called it racist garbage and I stand by that assessment. I said nothing of cebba and his story.

My point was that there are far more nice people in the world than evil people. But if you believe the opposite and want to spend your life thinking and treating people thus, that is your choice.

[Bluefuss]

Originally Posted by terminalcitygrl

Just to be crystal clear, I quoted Richard5's original post and called it racist garbage and I stand by that assessment. I said nothing of cebba and his story.

My point was that there are far more nice people in the world than evil people. But if you believe the opposite and want to spend your life thinking and treating people thus, that is your choice.

I've re-read Richard5's OP and I still can't find this racist rant you speak of TeminalGirl. Maybe everyone should just go for a beer, maybe a toke.

[bobofthenorth]

This thread has drifted a long way from the Sea of Cortez and I apologise for my contribution to further drift. Life is a terminal condition. Some of us choose to die with more varied memories than others. I applaud the diversity. I freely admit that my fear prevents me from doing some things that some of you do routinely - crossing oceans for example. My perception is that travel in the interior of Mexico is safe enough for me to accomplish and we do it as often as we can. We exercise approximately the same level of caution that we do while travelling in Las Vegas, which is by the way a very dangerous city.

We just returned from Guadalajara where we stayed with our Mexican daugher in a moderately tough neighbourhood of Tlaquepaque. I walked to the local grocery store and we ate on the street but I didn't go out alone after dark. YMMV. We try to avoid the tourist traps because we believe they attract the worst element whether it is Miami, Las Vegas or Mazatlan. Our only direct encounter with crime in Mexico was an attempted mugging several years ago in Puerto Peñasco. I was also robbed in Perdue Saskatchewan and Nipawin Saskatchewan, not that those instances are any more relevant than many of the other random observations in this thread.