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Old 03-02-2010, 22:29   #31
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For those of you have have heaved too in storms:
At what point do you throw out the drogue or sea anchor... or do you ever need to?
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Old 04-02-2010, 04:35   #32
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For those of you have have heaved too in storms:
At what point do you throw out the drogue or sea anchor... or do you ever need to?
Never had one .... never will.....
There's some ancient chinese/japanese proverb about the upright tree which is broken but the bamboo which bows to the force stands up again when it passes.... sounds good sense to me....
I go with the flow..
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Old 04-02-2010, 04:51   #33
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For those of you have have heaved too in storms:
At what point do you throw out the drogue or sea anchor... or do you ever need to?
It's a 'feel the boat' deal. The danger is all in the wave shape and there are no quantitative standards for that.

Just one example - we were once hove to, not in the gulf stream, but near by it - quite comfortable for a while; and then we started getting a second wave train slamming into the side of the boat. I am not sure if we entered an eddy or getting a pattern from a secondary low, but it sure did not feel right or good. We then ran with a drogue, on a course that split the two wave patterns.

In small boats the Pardey's definitely say there is a wind speed and wave height they can not stay hove-to without a para-anchor, because the head of the boat gets knocked off and they are lying beam on for periods. The need the para-anchor to hold the head up.

More recently we have tended to fore-reach rather than heave-to, and fore-reaching the vessel momentum may keeps the head up better and longer thru toughter conditions.
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Old 04-02-2010, 05:07   #34
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Returning to the OP, I enjoyed Grace's book and found it really good that she had managed money/interaction/community through working as an artist. I took that positive slant rather than the difficulties that her art work helped her to overcome!

I think lots of the circumnavigation books, particularly by single handers, talk about the storms - including some that have been mentioned. Yeah - drama sells books.

Maybe you can achieve your ambitions for cruising without passages of more than 500 miles - which is about the limit of the forecasting - and without a schedule that forces you into unacceptable weather. You still need the boat, the skills and the courage, but it will dramatically reduce the risks of the far distant storms.

(Of course, being close to land brings other and some would say far more frightening events!)
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Old 04-02-2010, 07:48   #35
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It's a 'feel the boat' deal. The danger is all in the wave shape and there are no quantitative standards for that.

Just one example - we were once hove to, not in the gulf stream, but near by it - quite comfortable for a while; and then we started getting a second wave train slamming into the side of the boat. I am not sure if we entered an eddy or getting a pattern from a secondary low, but it sure did not feel right or good. We then ran with a drogue, on a course that split the two wave patterns.

In small boats the Pardey's definitely say there is a wind speed and wave height they can not stay hove-to without a para-anchor, because the head of the boat gets knocked off and they are lying beam on for periods. The need the para-anchor to hold the head up.

More recently we have tended to fore-reach rather than heave-to, and fore-reaching the vessel momentum may keeps the head up better and longer thru toughter conditions.
Agree that your heading gets knocked by the 'off swell' usually 1 in 9 waves roughly... and you go beam to for a few minutes but prefer that to having to leave the relative safety of my Hatch/Cockpit in an emergency to mess around with a para-anchor to get out of the way of a ship which has'nt/cant see your little 22 because of wave height preventing a steady reflection... your just part of the 'Wave Clutter' as I've discovered on more than one occasion on Biscay crossings and other Near Shipping voyages....
I just have to release the jib and run.....
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Old 04-02-2010, 08:13   #36
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prefer that to having to leave the relative safety of my Hatch/Cockpit in an emergency to mess around with a para-anchor to get out of the way of a ship
I agree and I am NOT a big fan of the para-anchor technique.

If heaving to/forereaching starts to not feel right/safe, we will usually next try turning and run (usually with a drogue) as that IMHO has many advantages vs the para-anchor, and one you bring up is that you do have some maneuverability to avoid ships.

If we are too close to a lee shore to run, we will try more actively forereaching, which seems to keep the head up into the waves better. This was quite a successful technique in the '98 Sydney to Hobart race. Our current boat can forereach into quite extreme conditions, but a smaller/less powerful one could/would reach a limit where they just could not make any vmg.

If you are trapped against and being driven on, a lee shore by hurricane force winds, and conditions are too bad to heave-to or forereach (or you have already been dismasted), and your engine does not work and you don't have room to run, you have screwed up big time But in that situation, the para-anchor is the last thing to try here before calling for help.
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Old 04-02-2010, 09:16   #37
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I'm SO looking for a voyage of self-discovery, and an opportunity to grow in a way that is impossible with others.
I once spent two weeks in the ocean by myself; at some point I noticed that I am talking to my auto-pilot. Thought, it was not a good sign. I am not considering myself a very social person, but still...
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Old 04-02-2010, 09:19   #38
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This is a good thread.

Not to feed the fear, but I just read this over coffee and thought it interesting to think about:
Sereia Rides Again!: Knockdown
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Old 04-02-2010, 09:23   #39
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I once spent two weeks in the ocean by myself; at some point I noticed that I am talking to my auto-pilot. Thought, it was not a good sign. I am not considering myself a very social person, but still...

Once you start to call your GPS and Auto Pilot names like 'Biggles' and 'Algy' when you speak to them its time you start worrying..... LMAO..
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Old 04-02-2010, 10:02   #40
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This is a good thread.

Not to feed the fear, but I just read this over coffee and thought it interesting to think about:
Sereia Rides Again!: Knockdown
Whew! Reading about it got my adreniline going.
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Old 15-02-2010, 21:36   #41
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Once you start to call your GPS and Auto Pilot names like 'Biggles' and 'Algy' when you speak to them its time you start worrying..... LMAO..
I always thougt it was when they started talking back that it was time to worry...
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Old 15-02-2010, 21:59   #42
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You know, something that's been bugging me...
The impetus for this thread was a book that I was reading called By the Grace of the Sea, by Pat Henry. One of the prevailing issues that kept coming up in a sort of subliminal way was this:
Pat Henry sailed around the world for four years before she finally took the time to fly home and see her family. During her absence many really important things happened to different family members - a daughter got married and had two children, her mother was almost moved to a rest home, etc.
Another question I have for those of you that are reading this, and perhaps resonating with: How do you handle the guilt and pressure of sort of "abandoning" your families to do what is possibly one of the most selfish things a person can do - sailing the world?!
My parents live in Puerto Vallarta, Mexico for seven months out of the year, and frankly - their absence during Christmases and other important events has left me with a perhaps stronger-than-normal sense that I need to be home for my family. I call it the "Jimmy Stewart Complex," i.e., It's a Wonderful Life. (you would have had to have seen the movie to get it).

Anyway, how (if you have a limited income) do you handle life just passing by alone, while your family figures out how to manage without you. (I don't mean to instigate a guilt trip, but yes, each member of a family is an important contributing factor to the lives of each member).

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Old 16-02-2010, 06:35   #43
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You know, something that's been bugging me...
The impetus for this thread was a book that I was reading called By the Grace of the Sea, by Pat Henry. One of the prevailing issues that kept coming up in a sort of subliminal way was this:
Pat Henry sailed around the world for four years before she finally took the time to fly home and see her family. During her absence many really important things happened to different family members - a daughter got married and had two children, her mother was almost moved to a rest home, etc.
Another question I have for those of you that are reading this, and perhaps resonating with: How do you handle the guilt and pressure of sort of "abandoning" your families to do what is possibly one of the most selfish things a person can do - sailing the world?!
My parents live in Puerto Vallarta, Mexico for seven months out of the year, and frankly - their absence during Christmases and other important events has left me with a perhaps stronger-than-normal sense that I need to be home for my family. I call it the "Jimmy Stewart Complex," i.e., It's a Wonderful Life. (you would have had to have seen the movie to get it).

Anyway, how (if you have a limited income) do you handle life just passing by alone, while your family figures out how to manage without you. (I don't mean to instigate a guilt trip, but yes, each member of a family is an important contributing factor to the lives of each member).

One is either a 'Dependant' or 'Independant' personality....
Reading your posts to date I would say you are of the 'Dependant' ilk and therefore this Cruising life is not for you... maybe you should limit yourself to 7/10 day Charter breaks... as you seem more inclined to find reasons against, than you are FOR Sailing Away...
There is the other angle... is'nt your family selfish for resisting your wish to live a life you'd like to... by laying "Guilt Trips" on you....
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Old 16-02-2010, 09:03   #44
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Boatman,
For sure there is some truth to your observations. One thing for sure however - I'm as independant as they get. But I'm also caring and responsible - and I try to think things through carefully and with consideration for others.
Your suggestion regarding the shorter sails as opposed to the lifetime cruising is a good one. In fact, it is probably the option I will have to live with eventually.
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Old 16-02-2010, 09:07   #45
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Another question I have for those of you that are reading this, and perhaps resonating with: How do you handle the guilt and pressure of sort of "abandoning" your families to do what is possibly one of the most selfish things a person can do - sailing the world?!
Anyway, how (if you have a limited income) do you handle life just passing by alone, while your family figures out how to manage without you. (I don't mean to instigate a guilt trip, but yes, each member of a family is an important contributing factor to the lives of each member).

there's the phone, e-mail and skype. it's pretty easy these days to stay in touch. As boatman says, you may want to examine your self to see why you're looking for reasons not to go. Sailing away forever is not for everyone, but you have to ask your self what's my reasons for going AND what's my reasons for not going. A big part of the latter is usually fear of the unknown.
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