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Old 18-05-2010, 10:33   #16
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To answer your other question, I personally would not favor a 3 cabin layout in any boat under the mid to upper 40's. I feel the space loss is not worth it and the third cabin would be better suited as an open area for functionality. Basically what I am saying is that a 3 SR vessel under 45 feet makes a very tight salon where you will spend a large percentage of your time.

My opinions.

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Old 18-05-2010, 11:13   #17
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We are a family of 4... moved aboard 35' Cal Cruising sloop when son was 12 and daughter 8. Kids slept in V-berth with heavy privacy curtain dividing middle. Hubby and I slept in saloon by breaking down the dinette each night. We used 1/4 aft berth for storage. We have cruised Mexico only at this point and rarely sleep in cockpit due to humidity/condensation. Wake up in a pool of water! Son will be 15 next month and daughter is 10. We have upgraded to a 41' Tartan TOCK ketch with center cockpit and kids now each have separate bunks in the forward cabin... and hubby and I have the aft. We have been working, working, working on this boat for 4 months now and can't wait to get it in the water and on its way! However, the space has been a blessing. If we had only wanted to cruise another year, we would have kept the 35' Cal Cruising. Because we are thinking of cruising as long as we can, the 41' Tartan was more desirable. We don't want a bigger boat than this... too costly to maintain is the main reason. Good luck on your search!
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Old 18-05-2010, 22:34   #18
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Originally Posted by Nick1 View Post
. From storage point a view, two cabins vs. three cabin, which option is more suitable? Using the third cabin as storage or having a large locker?
from a storage point of view the 2 cabin version of our Bene 393 is perfect for 2 people.
The 3rd cabin is split into a large lazarette and the aft cabin is larger.

The Lazarette has 14 gerry cans, a 9.9hp outboard, suitcase, oars etc etc etc in it.

The aft cabin is sectioned off so one person can sleep in there off watch. The rest is storage space.

Now we have done our large passages with little reporvisioning prospects, the Pacific and Asia, and only have the Med and the short trans atlantic to get to the Caribbean, we are reducing the amount of stores. Food stores now will be far less than before, most of the gerry cans will go, the spare outboard goes etc.

So storage, again, depends on where you're cruising

Kids would need a lot of stores too, wouldnt they?

Mark
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Old 19-05-2010, 08:00   #19
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To answer your other question, I personally would not favor a 3 cabin layout in any boat under the mid to upper 40's. I feel the space loss is not worth it and the third cabin would be better suited as an open area for functionality. Basically what I am saying is that a 3 SR vessel under 45 feet makes a very tight salon where you will spend a large percentage of your time.

Thanks for your input!

I think there are some 3 cabin layouts where the third cabin doesnít necessarily takes up space from the main salon. But it rather limits drastically the storage / lazarette at the aft.
My recent bareboat charter was on a Catalina 400 with 2 cabin layout. The aft cabin had a large bed in the middle with access on both side. This cabin could have easily been splited in half in order to make for two cabins without taking any of the salon space.

Here is similar type of 3 cabin layout in Beneteau Oceanis 373:



Here is the full listing info:

2005 Beneteau Oceanis 373 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com=
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Old 19-05-2010, 09:52   #20
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Oops, I forgot to include the photo of the 3 cabin layout (Beneteau Oceanis 373) ....

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Old 19-05-2010, 10:38   #21
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Thanks for your input!

I think there are some 3 cabin layouts where the third cabin doesn’t necessarily takes up space from the main salon. But it rather limits drastically the storage / lazarette at the aft.
My recent bareboat charter was on a Catalina 400 with 2 cabin layout. The aft cabin had a large bed in the middle with access on both side. This cabin could have easily been splited in half in order to make for two cabins without taking any of the salon space.

Here is similar type of 3 cabin layout in Beneteau Oceanis 373:



Here is the full listing info:

2005 Beneteau Oceanis 373 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com=
I am assuming you know that we live on and cruise a Catalina 400. I am also the technical editor for them. I'm typing this from the nav station right now (smile)!

If you split the aft cabin into two, you would also have to change the galley layout. THis is often altered with putting it amidships, running along the beam. That will take away from available seating in the salon.

The 42 comes in a 3 SR version. I think the 400 was even considered for that for a while. Not sure if Jerry made any of the 400's with a 3sr. I am not aware of any. I have been on the 3sr 42. As mentioned above, the galley moves and changes the feel for the salon as well as taking away from the 'garage' on the port lazarette. You get the third SR but with considerable compromises. They are compromises I would not make with two kids. I would if I had three. But this is my opinion and others feel different.
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Old 19-05-2010, 10:43   #22
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That layout for the 373 does not leave much room in the staterooms for anything but sleeping. To me, personally, that would be giving up a lot just to have a seperate place to sleep.

Our kids have been sleeping side-side for years. I think it may actually be harder to seperate them than to keep them together. Most of the cruising kids I know feel the same (up to a certain age I suspect).

It would be nice if they had a cabin that they could play in and read in - two things that will happen a lot. THose types of quarterberths would restrict both.

Again, these are my opinions.

Brian
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Old 19-05-2010, 12:20   #23
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…. the galley moves and changes the feel for the salon as well as taking away from the 'garage' on the port lazarette. You get the third SR but with considerable compromises.
I totally agree with your comments. Part of my confusion comes from the somewhat deceiving photo layout (see above) where it’s not very clear the overall impact.
Also, it would help me to actually being able to see in reality some of these boats (3 cabins under 40ft) and that might change the perception entirely.

Anyway, for now I would stick in my searches with the 2 cabin layout.
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Old 19-05-2010, 12:53   #24
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Many thanks for your input!

One of the question that keeps coming back to me, as I browse some of the listing on yachtworld, is how much of the initial investment can be recovered?

In my case, the assumption is to go ahead with the initial budget, 80k (boat) plus 20k (outfitting) and set sail for one year in the Caribbean. Based on my preliminary findings, this would get me more or less a boat between 36ft to 38ft. Let’s say, for whatever reasons, after one year we decide to go back to the land live.

By putting the boat back for sale after one year, realistically how much we can recover from the initial 100k investment? There are any industry statistics in this sense? What it would be a best case scenario and a worst case scenario?

Percentage wise, how much difference in the resale value would make a production boat (private owner) v.s. production boat (ex-charter)?
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Old 19-05-2010, 13:50   #25
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1) a small cat perhaps? Athena (38)? Privilege (37-38)?

2) a not so small mono (36+)?

I met many couples with kids on cats. Kids seem to love cats.

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Old 19-05-2010, 14:16   #26
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.... Kids seem to love cats.



I’m sure my kids and my wife (the most) would love cats too

Yes, I thought initially about the cats, however, I don’t think it’s a feasible option for our budget. Usually the cats start around $170, which is way above our initial budget. That would take further years of saving and we would prefer to do this trip sooner rather then later.


The only possible cat out there that we might be able to afford could be the Gemini Performance 34ft.

Gemini 105Mc

I’ve never been on a Gemini cat, and I wonder how the sailing / space / safety would compare with a, let’s say 38ft monohull?
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Old 19-05-2010, 15:51   #27
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I remember looking at a Moody 42 and it was a great boat but it was very limited with respect to stowage! Not sure about the 38 though.

If you go with a mono hull you might want to consider a center cockpit as they have the advantage of a nice private aft state room. Although CC usually requires over 40 feet LOA to be an efficient layout.
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Old 24-05-2010, 10:13   #28
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Many thanks for your input!

One of the question that keeps coming back to me, as I browse some of the listing on yachtworld, is how much of the initial investment can be recovered?

In my case, the assumption is to go ahead with the initial budget, 80k (boat) plus 20k (outfitting) and set sail for one year in the Caribbean. Based on my preliminary findings, this would get me more or less a boat between 36ft to 38ft. Letís say, for whatever reasons, after one year we decide to go back to the land live.

By putting the boat back for sale after one year, realistically how much we can recover from the initial 100k investment? There are any industry statistics in this sense? What it would be a best case scenario and a worst case scenario?

Percentage wise, how much difference in the resale value would make a production boat (private owner) v.s. production boat (ex-charter)?
I can only give you a vague opinion on this. I think you would lose most of the 20k refit investment, and maintain maybe 90% of the initial investment. After a boat is used for a while, if taken care of, its depreciations seems to level out. But please understand, this is just my opinion as I am not a boat broker.

As far as Private versus Charter, I personally would not buy a charter boat unless she was pristine and had a thorough survey and was at a price that I could not resist. Those things are rode hard and put up wet. I have also known other people that do/have bought them without incident... but I suspect that mey be the exception versus the rule. But again, just my opinion.

As you are taking your family (and even if you were not) I believe that the right piurchase is a very well taken care of vessel versus a cheap vessel that you can get a good deal on. That means you will pay the top 10% for the boat. Those boats are also very hard to find and you will get little to no negotiation. You will know those boats the second you step on them or see them. Focus your money on a great boat and spend more upfront and it might save you ten times that afterwards. That is my philosophy. Others may see it differently.

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Old 24-05-2010, 11:05   #29
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The difference between some 2 cabin boats is the aft cabin can be a bit larger but the extra space is used in a big lazarette.

The layout below is a Bene 361 2 cabin.

As Nick pointed out some boats 2 Canin version means an island bed aft and no extra storage space.

For cruising long range storage space is always one of the top priorities.

The other layouts are our 393 2 cabin version. The one with the black diagonal lines shows where we have sectioned off the aft cabin for extra internal storage.

The off watch person sleeps there in the remaining berth. In port we sleep in the forward cabin.

If friends roll up we give them the forward cabin and we snuggle close in the aft.

For those folks with one child this would work, but not for 2 weenies.

Look at storage. Its pretty vital
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Old 24-05-2010, 11:13   #30
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Many thanks for your input!

One of the question that keeps coming back to me, as I browse some of the listing on yachtworld, is how much of the initial investment can be recovered?

In my case, the assumption is to go ahead with the initial budget, 80k (boat) plus 20k (outfitting) and set sail for one year in the Caribbean. Based on my preliminary findings, this would get me more or less a boat between 36ft to 38ft. Letís say, for whatever reasons, after one year we decide to go back to the land live.

By putting the boat back for sale after one year, realistically how much we can recover from the initial 100k investment? There are any industry statistics in this sense? What it would be a best case scenario and a worst case scenario?

Percentage wise, how much difference in the resale value would make a production boat (private owner) v.s. production boat (ex-charter)?
This is a hard one... the economy isn't what it was 2-3 years ago. Who knows what it will be like when you're done cruising? And, will you need to sell it fast or will you be able to pay for slip fees and wait for the right buyer? It is my experience that owning a boat (we've owned 4 sailboats) is not a financial investment. We have never 'made' money afterwards. Although, we do know people who sailed their boats to Australia this year and sold them there for a profit.

When we purchased 41' 'Hotspur' in January of this year, we were told by a surveyor that boats were selling 35% under what the listed 'SOLD' prices were 3 years ago. Again... poor economy. So, we got a great deal on 'Hotspur'. But we lost on the 35' boat we sold. We didn't recover what we put into her (approx. 20K) AND we didn't get what we paid for her, even though she had major upgrades. The boat we sold, by the way, is out there cruising it up and we are STILL making repairs to the one we bought cheap four months ago! However, as it stands now, we may have a 41' boat for not much more money than we sold our 35' for. Not bad! BUT... it has cut into our cruising time.

Okay... back to the "labor camp". Supposedly we'll get her off the hard and in the water this week! Good luck to you on your quest!
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