Sexist Views...

[JPA Cate]

Diverchick,

On our boat, Jim and I do most jobs together, with him as the lead person. In some jobs, having two people working together is a much better deal. One of them is fiberglassing, where there's a lot of getting stuff ready to go and then holding it to be used. Since epoxy has a limited use time before it starts to go off, you might want, for instance, to plan smaller areas if working alone. At any rate, I think the question about having someone to help is both relevant and appropriate. We'll never know if it was sexist. Life's about ignoring it when you find it, as much as possible. Those kinds of guys are usually reduced to sailing alone, and will be jealous of your partner that you're there and he's not alone.

Also, it is true that some guys sail alone because their wives are too girly to risk a broken fingernail sail handling. As had been remarked previously, there's some truth in stereotypes. That's life. Just keep on doing what you want to, and don't waste precious energy on stuff over which you have no control.

Ann

[Ocean Girl]

This is from twenty years ago, so things are a bit different now.

It really seems to be a learning thing for the men. The guys I worked with and the guys I employed when I owned a yacht service company, really got mad if I was treated any differently by the males of the boat yard or such( at least treated negatively ). So there was a funny dynamics of men educating the men who would give me a hard time. Mostly, I appreciated the help and it usually only involved a simple comment by a male that she knows what she is doing, or they would ask me a question about my area of expertise even though they knew the answer. I'm not saying every guy needed that, to some it was no big deal, to others, me and my girlfriends who worked on boats were a novelty.

As far as the grief givers, It was usually someone who I have never met before that I'd get the "your just a dumb blonde" attitude or they would just stand there slack jawed staring at my boobs. Funny how quickly you can size up a guy by their first reaction to you. Most women here know the "triangle look". Man walks up to you, they look at your eyes, look at each boob, then look back at your eyes. The good guys would do this once, maybe twice, the bad ones would just cycle through over and over like they are stuck in a time loop. you just gotta walk away from the latter, there is no getting through to them and it is major creepy.

But if I screwed up, the blonde jokes would start flying by a few of the guys. Like Zee said, my mistakes were because I was female, not because I was human. So two steps forward one step back.

BTW I wasn't butch at all, very girly, long hair, and loved pink. Though I usually had flecks of bottom pain in my hair and varnish under my nails .

Anyone from Kemah, Texas remember Captain Wicks? He owned a big boat yard and the biggest good ole white boy you'll ever meet. Never had an issue with him. In fact, he was a mentor to me. Many times I'd look up from my grinder and see Captain Wicks with someone, talking and pointing right over to me, sending a new customers my way. Sweet

Hope that made sense, just some observations, don't quite understand all the men woman dynamics. I guess partly because I'm a female and partly because I'm human.

[DeepFrz]

Is this a sexist thread?

[Teknav]

Look on the other side of the coin...Everyone knows Victoria Secret! Very few knows what the secret is! A man shopping alone, gets deep discounts on his purchases because he buys "stringy stuff" in bulk; and that's the discount secret, not to mention modeling/viewing the stringy stuff worn by eager sales clerks!

Mauritz
Going to behave now!

[DiverChick71]

Wow.... I'm even getting some great info! Thanks to everyone.

If I didn't want to go to Oz already!!! (I desperately do) I sure do now thanks to aclmck and Mac! But the dog and cat make that problematic, so I'll have to wait to jump that puddle.

Ann, I do have a partner and he'll be there with all the epoxy and glass work, etc. I just had to call the company that we're ordering from because that's what I do...I plan and organize and might be a bit too...controlling...(ouch hate to admit that) to not be the 51% involved one. I came to this dream of cruising alone, and met him on the way. So now that it's getting closer, it's really hard for me to let go of anything. He's from the south (USA) so it's hard for him to let me do things. We're quite the pair. One of my kids used to say "By SELF!" when they were about 3 and needed me to back off and let them spread their wings. So I jokingly use that phrase when I need the same space.

Still, sexism isn't always bad. We also joke about pink duties and blue duties. I'm quite content cooking while he changes the oil in the cars. There is some comfort in gender roles, at times. I never was ANGRY about the phone call, not in the least. I think I stated that pretty clearly in my first post. I just found it interesting.

[DiverChick71]

Originally Posted by DeepFrz

Is this a sexist thread?

Yes!!!! Guilty!!

[Dennis.G]

Originally Posted by DiverChick71

... But he asked me, "Do you have someone to help you with this?" ...

Just so you know, I have heard the same (similar) comment on occasion when I was asking about parts for some project where my expertise was limited (and I am a man). I think it is mostly that the salesperson had some concern if project would be successful, and that they would not have to deal with me later trying to return a "defective" part that was misapplied.

Not to say that this may not be more likely in case of a woman customer, but I do not think the comment has made purely because you are a woman.

[rognvald]

Originally Posted by rebel heart

I was in San Diego Sailing Supply (retail store) and saw the lady answer the phone, asked the caller to wait, and then asked a guy standing next to her to pick it up. She said, "He wants to talk to a man."

I asked her how often it happens and she said about once a day. People just call, hear her voice, and ask for a man. Incidentally she is a very accomplished sailor.

Old white men and their view that the only people can do anything right are other old white men.

Rebelheart,
Very interesting response. I do, however, have a question for you to kindly answer. When you were in the marine chandlery and overheard the above conversation, was it your supernatural and telepathic powers that enabled you to determine that the person on the other end of the telephone was an "Old White guy?" Or, did you prejudge/assume his race and age? If it was the latter, then how are you different from those you criticize as sexist, racist and guilty of prejudging others?

[Maine Sail]

Originally Posted by DiverChick71

How many other girls feel like they get treated differently when they are dealing with a marina or boat yard or other marine-related company?

I made a phone call today to ask some questions about materials I need to order for a boat repair. I'm not at all bashing the guy that helped me, he was very helpful and seem genuinely to want me to have success in my project. I would rate my customer satisfaction with the call very high. But he asked me, "Do you have someone to help you with this?"
Hmmm. How am I supposed to take that? I wasn't being particularly clueless. I was asking about different ratios for epoxy thickening and if I should use fillers, etc.

So I just wonder if he would have had the same approach if my boyfriend would have called and asked the same questions instead of me? He flat out said he's never had anyone ask him if he had "someone to help him" even when he's talked to a shop owner about a totally foreign subject and been completely clueless.

At any rate, it's a moot point because I'm way too much of an involved party to let him make my phone calls, I wouldn't be satisfied with the answers he got, even though they would likely lead down the same path. But I'm curious if anyone else feels they are treated differently because we are the fairer sex.

I have a number of female boat owners I work for and don't treat them any different then men. That said I'm not female and I am sure you can find examples of sexism just about everywhere. My wife went to Simmons so I am clearly tuned into it....

P.S Thanks for the kind words on your blog...!

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

I wonder if there was a brain switch that could turn off ALL sexist thinking, would most women really want it flipped?

Would the gains for them offset the losses?

Sure would save a bunch on clothes and stupid shoes.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by DiverChick71

How many other girls feel like they get treated differently when they are dealing with a marina or boat yard or other marine-related company?

I made a phone call today to ask some questions about materials I need to order for a boat repair. I'm not at all bashing the guy that helped me, he was very helpful and seem genuinely to want me to have success in my project. I would rate my customer satisfaction with the call very high. But he asked me, "Do you have someone to help you with this?"
Hmmm. How am I supposed to take that? I wasn't being particularly clueless. I was asking about different ratios for epoxy thickening and if I should use fillers, etc.

So I just wonder if he would have had the same approach if my boyfriend would have called and asked the same questions instead of me? He flat out said he's never had anyone ask him if he had "someone to help him" even when he's talked to a shop owner about a totally foreign subject and been completely clueless.

At any rate, it's a moot point because I'm way too much of an involved party to let him make my phone calls, I wouldn't be satisfied with the answers he got, even though they would likely lead down the same path. But I'm curious if anyone else feels they are treated differently because we are the fairer sex.

I'd have been more direct...
"I'm free this w/end if you'd like some help..."

But then I'm sexist... Nice Avatar...

[Sam Plan B]

Maybe the guy was about to hit on you but then thought better of it.

[Krogensailor]

"Everything we have screwed up as been 100% operator error. Hopefully tackling this deck job will put me at ease with fiberglass. I'm scared to start but I think once I do start, it will be less overwhelming."
So if the guy was not perceptive enough to pick up on the 'feelings', that given the above statement demonstrates, he would be an insensitive slob. If he queries you as to, whether you’re sure you know what you are getting into, he's a chauvinistic throwback. But when we get to the checkout counter, "is there any kind of break a cute girl can get?" My words, not yours, but translation is the same. “me thinks the lady doth protest too much”. You, nor I can have it both ways. Of course we can, but we can't then complain about the price. The females in my life, as in my Mother, sisters, wives, daughters, and granddaughter have every right and liberty to live their lives on their own terms and to expect and, demand respect. And I will defend that right, right down to my last bullet. But there neither was, nor is there, much leeway given at our dinner table when it comes knowing or not knowing what you are talking about. BS was not well received. Mine included. Make your declaration; defend it by making a sound argument. Be open to the possibility that you/I could be missing something. Be willing and humble enough to receive and accept the gift of another’s experience and hard won knowledge. And then with love and support, along with encouragement, go get your own. Are there dinosaurs walking the streets, absolutely! Male and female. "Do you have someone to help you with this?" sounds like and may well have been the correct, not politically correct of course, but the correct question to have been asked. You were asking him questions, and you don't know what you are doing. Don't be too prideful about not knowing what you are doing. If you do, not knowing what you are doing will become a way of life, and it will always be their fault. Get some epoxy in your ear, get to know how nasty this **** can be, admire your work and then go sailing.
And I agree with this comment, "Chauvinism is alive and (not) well", And offer this comment as evidence, as is ageism/racism being alive and well, "Old white men and their view that the only people an do anything right are other old white men." We have a long way to go. Peace PS Its a good thing to not just become older, but to also become and elder. Important distinction missing in our culture these days. Signed, Old White Guy

[OutOfControl]

..."And I agree with this comment, "Chauvinism is alive and (not) well", And offer this comment as evidence, as is ageism/racism being alive and well, "Old white men and their view that the only people an do anything right are other old white men." We have a long way to go. Peace PS Its a good thing to not just become older, but to also become and elder. Important distinction missing in our culture these days. Signed, Old White Guy"

Krogensailor, great post.
Signed, another Old White Guy.

[DiverChick71]

Originally Posted by Krogensailor

"Everything we have screwed up as been 100% operator error. Hopefully tackling this deck job will put me at ease with fiberglass. I'm scared to start but I think once I do start, it will be less overwhelming."
So if the guy was not perceptive enough to pick up on the 'feelings', that given the above statement demonstrates, he would be an insensitive slob. If he queries you as to, whether you’re sure you know what you are getting into, he's a chauvinistic throwback. But when we get to the checkout counter, "is there any kind of break a cute girl can get?" My words, not yours, but translation is the same. “me thinks the lady doth protest too much”. You, nor I can have it both ways. Of course we can, but we can't then complain about the price. The females in my life, as in my Mother, sisters, wives, daughters, and granddaughter have every right and liberty to live their lives on their own terms and to expect and, demand respect. And I will defend that right, right down to my last bullet. But there neither was, nor is there, much leeway given at our dinner table when it comes knowing or not knowing what you are talking about. BS was not well received. Mine included. Make your declaration; defend it by making a sound argument. Be open to the possibility that you/I could be missing something. Be willing and humble enough to receive and accept the gift of another’s experience and hard won knowledge. And then with love and support, along with encouragement, go get your own. Are there dinosaurs walking the streets, absolutely! Male and female. "Do you have someone to help you with this?" sounds like and may well have been the correct, not politically correct of course, but the correct question to have been asked. You were asking him questions, and you don't know what you are doing. Don't be too prideful about not knowing what you are doing. If you do, not knowing what you are doing will become a way of life, and it will always be their fault. Get some epoxy in your ear, get to know how nasty this **** can be, admire your work and then go sailing.
And I agree with this comment, "Chauvinism is alive and (not) well", And offer this comment as evidence, as is ageism/racism being alive and well, "Old white men and their view that the only people an do anything right are other old white men." We have a long way to go. Peace PS Its a good thing to not just become older, but to also become and elder. Important distinction missing in our culture these days. Signed, Old White Guy

Hmmmm....dinners at your table sound lively. Point taken.

Please note...it was not me that ever said anything about "Old White Guy". That's just not a statement I would make.