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Old 04-06-2014, 13:48   #226
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Re: Sexist Views...

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Wifey B:

On the water, I'm a licensed captain just as my hubby is. But yes I can get more cooperation from marinas, lockmasters, and bridge tenders, just by voice. They treat women better. They feel like, poor little girl, or something.
I by no means intend this to belittle your post or your experiences as I am sorry you've had to go through what you did. However this one statement struck a chord with me.

How do you know how these people feel or what they think when you get them to do things for you? How do you know what their consideration is when you get "more cooperation" from them?

Also if you purposefully are seeking out that consideration then it makes your statement very hypocritical. And that hypocrisy can even be from purposefully having you call or ask for help as opposed to you husband doing it.

Like I said I don't mean this as anything personal or demeaning to you, but sexism works both ways and nothing makes me more frustrated then when a woman thinks that by smiling and flirting with me that I will help them out or give them a deal or something for free just because they are attractive. To me that is incredibly demeaning and insulting for them to think that they can fool me to cut them a brake because they are a woman.
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Old 04-06-2014, 13:50   #227
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Re: Sexist Views...

I do, my physician is female.
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Old 04-06-2014, 13:58   #228
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Re: Sexist Views...

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I by no means intend this to belittle your post or your experiences as I am sorry you've had to go through what you did. However this one statement struck a chord with me.

How do you know how these people feel or what they think when you get them to do things for you? How do you know what their consideration is when you get "more cooperation" from them?

Also if you purposefully are seeking out that consideration then it makes your statement very hypocritical. And that hypocrisy can even be from purposefully having you call or ask for help as opposed to you husband doing it.

Like I said I don't mean this as anything personal or demeaning to you, but sexism works both ways and nothing makes me more frustrated then when a woman thinks that by smiling and flirting with me that I will help them out or give them a deal or something for free just because they are attractive. To me that is incredibly demeaning and insulting for them to think that they can fool me to cut them a brake because they are a woman.
Gee if you're a women, you can tell by how guys talk to you. Its quite common.

WAIT.. Why does it matter who ask's. SO it's sexist if Wifey B ask's but not her hubby.... HUM
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Old 04-06-2014, 14:08   #229
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Re: Sexist Views...

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Question of the day. How many men here go to a female doctor as their primary physician? ............. But I'll be surprised if any of you go to a female as primary.
I've never felt that it was odd that I've had the same female primary care physician for the last twenty years, but then nobody has ever told me, "Don't worry your sweet little head about it."
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Old 04-06-2014, 14:09   #230
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Re: Sexist Views...

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Gee if you're a women, you can tell by how guys talk to you. Its quite common.
I by no means disagree with you at all. In fact I completely agree with you. I am not saying it is right or fair or polite. When I hear someone talk to my wife with the "tone" that some men get I usually make a scene. All I'm saying is it can be wrong both ways and if you don't like when people talk to you that way don't think it's ok to try to use that same leverage to get things you want or need. (I'm not saying you do personally just using the word you in the general sense)

My wife doesn't tolerate being talked to that way and she doesn't use her looks to get things. If she needs help or a favor she uses her education, her polite personality (something I usually lack) and her life experiences to help her in situations.
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Old 04-06-2014, 14:16   #231
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Re: Sexist Views...

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But I'll be surprised if any of you go to a female as primary.
Pretty sexist comment really..........
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Old 04-06-2014, 14:17   #232
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Re: Sexist Views...

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WAIT.. Why does it matter who ask's. SO it's sexist if Wifey B ask's but not her hubby.... HUM
Sorry you edited your post while I was typing a response.

To answer your question....no absolutely not.

What would be if it happens and I have no proof it does but was just making a point. Would be if hubby b were standing next to the radio and just before he radioed the lock master or marina or whoever, stopped and asked his wife to make the call because it was getting late in the day and figured she might get the gas dock/chandlery/parts counter or whatever to stay open an extra few minutes so they could get what they needed. That would be an example of using her sex to gain an advantage.

I apologize for not making that statement in my previous post a little more accurate.

Again I don't mean any of this to come off as mean spirited at all. I just (possibly in the wrong way) wanted to make the point that it is a 2 way street.
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Old 04-06-2014, 14:20   #233
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Re: Sexist Views...

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I by no means disagree with you at all. In fact I completely agree with you. I am not saying it is right or fair or polite. When I hear someone talk to my wife with the "tone" that some men get I usually make a scene. All I'm saying is it can be wrong both ways and if you don't like when people talk to you that way don't think it's ok to try to use that same leverage to get things you want or need. (I'm not saying you do personally just using the word you in the general sense)

My wife doesn't tolerate being talked to that way and she doesn't use her looks to get things. If she needs help or a favor she uses her education, her polite personality (something I usually lack) and her life experiences to help her in situations.
I do understand what your saying BTW about some women using their looks to get something. Know a few.

There are times I do get better treatment, just because of being blonde, blue eye, etc. Even at 58 years of age. I'm not asking for it, it just sort of happens. Is it fair, no. But it's not my fault and I would prefer that it did not happen. By the same token, its hard to be taken serious too. Too much blonde stereotyping in the western world.
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Old 04-06-2014, 14:22   #234
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Re: Sexist Views...

The wage disparity between men and woman is such a bogus issue! People forget it is really just the Titanic Surcharge. Bill Burr explains:
Bill Burr - Women's Rights - YouTube
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Old 04-06-2014, 15:23   #235
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Re: Sexist Views...

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The wage disparity between men and woman is such a bogus issue! People forget it is really just the Titanic Surcharge. Bill Burr explains:
Bill Burr - Women's Rights - YouTube
Lets not forget that many women went down with the titanic also.

This engineer had she been on the titanic would have been busy taking wood from crates, tables, mattresses, rope, linens and wine/beer keg's, empty containers, jug's etc and start making bloody rafts, after organizing some of the 1000 guys standing around to help build the things. They had three hours after all.

Oh wait they would not have listened to me.... never mind...
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Old 04-06-2014, 15:40   #236
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Re: Sexist Views...

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I by no means intend this to belittle your post or your experiences as I am sorry you've had to go through what you did. However this one statement struck a chord with me.

How do you know how these people feel or what they think when you get them to do things for you? How do you know what their consideration is when you get "more cooperation" from them?

Also if you purposefully are seeking out that consideration then it makes your statement very hypocritical. And that hypocrisy can even be from purposefully having you call or ask for help as opposed to you husband doing it.

Like I said I don't mean this as anything personal or demeaning to you, but sexism works both ways and nothing makes me more frustrated then when a woman thinks that by smiling and flirting with me that I will help them out or give them a deal or something for free just because they are attractive. To me that is incredibly demeaning and insulting for them to think that they can fool me to cut them a brake because they are a woman.
Wifey B: I don't take any of it as insulting. The real reason I'm more effective and get better consideration mostly isn't my sex. I'm far more outgoing and my hubby shy. He's uncomfortable calling strangers on phone or radio. I'm cool with it. Now is there some tendency to help the opposite sex more? I think so on both sexes. As to the consideration they expect, I don't think any. I believe they are just responding to someone being nice to them and treating them with respect. And I do so even if they're in a grouchy mood. I might have heard them talking to others. Like the last bridge we needed opened. I might say, "Hello kind sir, we'd really be very grateful if you'd let us pass through your bridge at the 11:15 opening. We promise to be good."

My hubby doesn't realize at all, never has, how women rush to help him. He flirts totally without knowing it and unintentionally. Basically by being nice and complimentary. Oh and he flirts with 18 to 80 year olds. In person he's great, but over radio or phone, I'm better. Let me give you an example of him. Last time at Starbucks. He smiles and say, "Oh my....what a smile you have. You made me forget why I'm here. Not coffee. Let's see. Oh I'd like...." He got his order and then said, "Thank you so much. You've brightened my day." Does it sound corny, like some line? Well, the woman was 20 years older than him. A little kindness goes a long way.

Flirting is a hard thing to define actually. Where does being nice and sweet become flirting? Is it when you're after something? Or when the other person thinks you're sweet? I don't know. I guess in some way, he and I are both big flirts. But not in a bad way. We're not trying to pick the person up or get something for nothing. We're just genuinely trying to be nice to people we meet. And we all talk differently to the opposite sex.

Now as to hypocritical, if the question is have I ever used my looks to get something I wanted or my way, the answer is yes. When younger, before meeting my husband. I think lots of young girls do. But young guys flirt with the girls behind the counter too. Then it became important to me to be successful on the basis of who I am, not how I look. I've never worn so many clothes or covered up as much in my life as I did as an elementary school teacher. I hid as much of that part of me as possible. There were certainly job avenues I could have pursued to use female charm, so to speak. Look at pharmaceutical sales. Almost all attractive females. They recruit college cheerleaders.

And I don't judge girls who use their looks to get things. I don't individually know their situation in life. Is it sexist in it's own way? Absolutely. It's actually taking advantage of sexist attitudes. But sometimes there are extenuating circumstances.

And some really do anger me. I know a case recently, the girl goes after the head of the company full speed, aggressively. She has a four year affair with him. He finally decides he doesn't feel good about himself and must stop it. She sues for sexual harassment. That's just wrong.

It's not a simple subject. The one thing I say though is just not to discriminate or be prejudiced based on anything not pertaining to what's at hand, from sex to race to hair color to weight. Base things on the real person. And all children should see unlimited possibilities in their lives. If we don't provide that feeling to them, then we're letting them down. We're heavily involved with an orphanage. Every one of those kids feels rejection of the worst type, from their parents. Getting them to dream outside the world they've lived in is the hardest thing. And what some of them have been told.

But then I know. I was told when I was 14 that I'd never amount to anything so I better learn to use my body to get what I want in life. By my father. He said "Look how useless your mother is." I heard him remind my mother often that the only purpose of women was to serve men, even the bible said so. I'm blessed to have found a man so totally opposite to that who saw all I am, all I could be, and always believed in me. I honestly didn't believe it was possible. I often though perhaps my father's perception of the world was how it really worked. I remember waitressing and using looks to get bigger tips and then feeling guilty, wondering if the tips were because I was a good waitress or other reasons.

So I don't take offense because times in my life I did the things you talk about. I think now I use kindness, not sexuality. But then I don't know the thoughts of others. How can you be kind to the opposite sex and they not sometimes perceive it other ways?
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Old 04-06-2014, 15:44   #237
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Re: Sexist Views...

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Pretty sexist comment really..........
Not a sexist comment to say few men go to female primary physicians. Just stating fact. There's a sex division that has existed where men go to male primary physicians. Women go to male and female. And I admit it felt odd to break through that stereotype. It was just a different experience. But then it felt just like any other doctor.
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Old 04-06-2014, 15:46   #238
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Re: Sexist Views...

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Sexist attitudes are not about age.

When I was in engineering I had to work harder just to be taken serious. Then there were the contractors on job sites. Luckily after a while they figured out I actually knew a thing or two, most of the time.
Sailorchic, I'm not trying to pick on you individually, but that statement struck a nerve with me.

I (male) worked for 7 years in a very male dominated industry but there certainly were some women too. What I noticed was that all the newly-hired men (no matter what the college transcript said, or what the resume read) had to pay their dues and suffer a bit of workplace hazing.

That said, the newly-hired women were usually treated a little kinder, but still were hazed a bit.

The men usually just considered it par-for-the-course, but the women on the other hand often took it as being disrespectful to their gender and felt they should be automatically respected because of the position they now held.

So are women treated unfairly because of their gender? sometimes yes, but oftentimes no. Oftentimes women are just more sensitive to common workplace shenanigans.

Again, no disrespect aimed at you SC - Just wanted to throw my 2-cents in based on your post.
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Old 04-06-2014, 15:58   #239
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Re: Sexist Views...

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Not a sexist comment to say few men go to female primary physicians. Just stating fact. There's a sex division that has existed where men go to male primary physicians. Women go to male and female. And I admit it felt odd to break through that stereotype. It was just a different experience. But then it felt just like any other doctor.
a fact?

As a Dr with 2 female colleagues, I just took a quick look at the ratio of male patients to provider in our clinic. Seems they outnumber me with male patients.
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Old 04-06-2014, 15:59   #240
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Re: Sexist Views...

Going back to the start of this thread long long long ago. I think we can all agree there are times men and women get treated differently. It's part of perceptions formed over our lifetimes. Most of the time it's not a conscious effort. Sometimes it's better, sometimes worse. We expect to see people in certain roles. Now that's changed a lot and will continue to do so. Once we're exposed to someone doing things outside our stereotypes then we think differently.

My wife docked the boat a couple of days ago. Boat full of people, several able bodied men who happen to have Captain's licenses as well. We were reduced to deckhands. Were the dockhands a bit surprised? Of course. One said, "She can really handle a boat." He wouldn't have said that if I'd docked it. But she didn't take it as a sexist insult, rather accepted it as a compliment.
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