sad news from the boating world

[Coops]

Originally Posted by Rakuflames

Ohhhh -- you didn't order your secret decoder ring!!!

What is that on your avatar -- a dolphin jumping with a COW? I tried to make it bigger but couldn't.

Yes it is a dolphin jumping with a cow. I am not convinced that it is a real photo though, i don't think dolphins can jump that high.

Coops.

[Ocean Girl]

Originally Posted by Rakuflames

Yes, it's up to the captain. But one report I saw said the boat was a new purchase. Maybe he just didn't know.

We tacked a boat in very light air last night by having everyone put their weight on the starboard side. It definitely made the boat roll -- not roll over, of course. It got us through the tack. I really think sailors tend to know more about their boats than power boaters.

Good point...but.. but I'm tellin ya, I had a trawler with a keel tied up in the slip and she did not like ten people pulling that stunt on the bridge. 27 people in a powerboat, I just don't know how that boat stayed upright as long as she did. ** No way that boat did not give warnings before the capsize. I have a feeling that will come out sooner or later. **

Frankly if the coastguard pulled her over it still could of ended in the same way with everyone running to one side to see the coast guard pulling them over..crazy! They were doomed the moment they left the slip. very sad.
Erika

[speedoo]

Here is the latest from the NY Times, with plenty of details. Apparently people knew the kids were trapped in the cabin immediately. And these people apparently were experienced boaters. If they were indeed experienced, it is hard to understand how they allowed that boat to be so overloaded. the comments from the captain don't make much sense.... how exactly did the boat start turning out of control?

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/06/ny...t.html?_r=1&hp

And this shows the area, where the boat capsized, and where it came to rest on the bottom:

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...l?ref=nyregion

[maxingout]

Overloading is a freaky thing. We once had about twenty people in the cockpit of our Privilege 39 catamaran doing a book swap. I watched the sugar scoops sink deeper and deeper into the water. It definitely made me feel uncomfortable seeing the stern sinking like that. My catamaran is 21 feet wide with no danger of capsize. I can't imagine what it would have been like with that many people on a small power boat. They may not have been drinking, but the exhibited impaired judgement.

[kthoennes]

Once again, having a very similar boat myself (beam, weight, height, general configuration all surprisingly close), I can tell you that if you tried to pack 27 people on mine you could barely move. Some humans will always do stupid, tragic things, regulations or not, experience or not, regulatory compliance or not, capacity placard or not. We don't know for sure yet what rolled it over, but I do know that if you packed 27 people on my boat you couldn't move -- I'm not even talking about safety, I mean you could barely physically move from one point to another without people in the way. I have five seats on the flybridge, six seats on the aft deck, and the salon comfortably seats four, five in a squeeze. Then mash in ten more... Okay, one standing in the shower, one standing in the galley, one standing in each head, two laying in the v-berth, two laying in the aft berth (yes, I know the Silverton was not an aft cabin) -- okay, still need to find room for two more. I guess we put them out on the swim pads on the bow, in the dark, at night, on Long Island Sound, crowded with boats. I don't care if you were the captain, passenger or saddest of all, one of the parents -- how in the world did any of those people not sense that something wasn't right and wasn't safe from the very beginning and wave the boat goodbye at the slip? You don't have to be Joshua Slocum, when a "pleasure" boat begins to feel like a Haitian refugee raft because you can barely physically move from one point to another on the boat, you have to know something is not right -- and I don't care how much sailing experience you may or may not have, or how many coast guard inspections may or may not occur. It just astounds me there were 27 people on that boat.

[Lagoon4us]

There is neither a federal regulation that limits the capacity of a recreational boat of that size, nor a voluntary standard, said Petty Officer Thomas McKenzie, a spokesman for the Coast Guard in New York City.

Those laws need to be changed, quite unbelievable?

[maxingout]

You could never outlaw stupid because that might result in the shutdown of the entire government.

[speedoo]

Stupidity sure sounds like the cause of this tragedy.. But I will read the final reports of the investigations before cementing that conclusion.

[GaryMayo]

In the dark, in a storm, wonder only three died. Could have lost more rescuers than that swimming , diving in dark waters around powerboats.

There is a similar boat on my dock. In the night, in a storm, three kids, three adults and a couple of crew would be a full boat in my thinking.

At what point does each responsible parent break off any rescue attempt?

This story will keep an army of lawyers , Army's more like it, busy and employed till long after the brothers and sisters of the lost are all grown up. Any adult on that boat that ever wants closure over this in their lifetime, should have gone down with the ship. There will be no rest for them on this planet. OJ will be better liked than these people before this is concluded.

Very sad.

[mbianka]

I know these waters and find it interesting he actually took the overloaded boat all the way out into Long Island Sound. The main fireworks were based inside Oyster Bay harbor off Coopers Bluff. There would have been less wake if he had remained inside the harbor area as that's where the Harbor and Suffolk Marine Police would have concentrating their patrols (and enforcement). Whole tragedy might have been averted if they had stayed inside. Glad to read alcohol was not involved in this tragedy but, common sense was lacking too. I never leave the mooring on holidays like July Fourth because there are just too many drunk and/or inexperienced boaters all on the water at the same time and then they all try to head back into the harbor at the same time too! IMO it's not worth the risk even if I'm the only one on board. I enjoy the fireworks show right at the mooring even if it is not a front row seat.

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by Lagoon4us

Thats cool i just didnt want you to feel offended because there's no intention, how do you post a picture here in this thread iv'e got it in Iphoto, its of an overloaded charter sailing boat, i took the pic three months ago... cheers

I haven't figured that out yet, but someone else put up a picture and I don't see how that boat could possibly be safe with so many people on it. I think a lot of people just have no conception of how boats work. We see it in sailing all the time when new people are afraid of heeling, but that cabin cruiser, seems to me, would have gotten top-heavy long before it got to 27 people.

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by Coops

Yes it is a dolphin jumping with a cow. I am not convinced that it is a real photo though, i don't think dolphins can jump that high.

Coops.

Cows can jump that high if they can see the moon.

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by speedoo

Here is the latest from the NY Times, with plenty of details. Apparently people knew the kids were trapped in the cabin immediately. And these people apparently were experienced boaters. If they were indeed experienced, it is hard to understand how they allowed that boat to be so overloaded. the comments from the captain don't make much sense.... how exactly did the boat start turning out of control?

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/06/ny...t.html?_r=1&hp

And this shows the area, where the boat capsized, and where it came to rest on the bottom:

Boat Capsizes After Fireworks Show - Graphic - NYTimes.com

I've said what I think about the phrase "experienced boaters" before. At least sometimes when people say that, it means that they had made the same mistakes before and been lucky.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by speedoo

the comments from the captain don't make much sense.... how exactly did the boat start turning out of control?

With the boat that overloaded the stern would have been badly dragging in the water, would not have taken much for the boat to go all squirly (sp?!) - kinda like driving on ice in a rear wheel drive car, back end doing stuff the steering wheel / driver doesn't want! Probably more of a problem at slow speeds than faster. Hell, he could even have come off the plane suddenly or at the wrong time (just as swell / wash arrived).

At the risk of getting all argumentative (again? ) I am a bit puzzled for the call (by some) for more regulations / laws (whether for boats themselves and / or operators).

Although not an expert on US law I would have thought that doing something so outrageously stupid that ended up in people dying would be a crime already (whether that be stuffing 27 people onto a 34 foot boat (did they need to use vaseline?!) or taking the family and freinds for a swim in an Alligator farm) and therefore no need for a boat (or Alligator!) specific offence to prosecute folks.....even if this case not an Electric Chair event, but nonetheless IMO pretty close.

I can understand the desire to prevent such things happening in the future - but given that the current approach (of lots of regulations and inspections) did not prevent this event then I don't really see why even more would help, unless you get to the point of a mandatory pre-departure inspection. and knowledge test . and even then.........

As said many times, you can't fix stupid. But IMO you can (and should) punish it (whether or not nature also does that). and even in the US (due to the numbers involved) stuff on this extreme end of stupidity surely can't be common?, elsewhere with less (or no) regulation things don't usually involve such things - even though proportionally speaking stupidity is evenly spread everywhere .

[Lagoon4us]

My point is these incidents back the use and reason for the inspections to increase simply because the point is not getting through.

Secondly the argument against such checkings is lost for the same reason.....

No one in this so called free world enjoys being policed but whilst stupid incidents like this occur it will be our lot for some time to come.