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Old 05-07-2012, 15:54   #46
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Re: sad news from the boating world

There is an official screening formula for boat capacity - it is length x beam / 15. For this boat, it comes out to 28. Now clearly that is very high, but according to that formula this boat was not overloaded. Now if there is also not a capacity plate.....

As reported, two of the kids who died were below in the cabin so did not have to be wearing life jackets.

So if the skipper did not break any laws, what could he be charged with? Being stupid is not sufficient, he needs to break a law.

It seems to me that one solution is proper capacity plates on all recreational vessels with a much more realistic capacity. Like right by the wheel in big red letters : capacity 10 passengers.
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Old 05-07-2012, 15:56   #47
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Re: sad news from the boating world

Where in fairy land did they get that formula???
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Old 05-07-2012, 16:08   #48
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Re: sad news from the boating world

The release says 2 people were operating the boat.

The boat capsized so weight was an issue.

They were watching fireworks so possibly/maybe favoured one side of the boat for viewing.

Jackets were mainly on.

No alcohol was involved.

Outside influence was possibly a wave or weather.

No way the boat was designed to carry that amount of people.
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Old 05-07-2012, 17:23   #49
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Re: sad news from the boating world

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Originally Posted by MarkSF View Post
There is an official screening formula for boat capacity - it is length x beam / 15. For this boat, it comes out to 28. Now clearly that is very high, but according to that formula this boat was not overloaded. Now if there is also not a capacity plate.....
Who issues this formula and where can it be found?
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Old 05-07-2012, 17:48   #50
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Re: sad news from the boating world





Quote:
Originally Posted by Lagoon4us View Post
The release says 2 people were operating the boat.

The boat capsized so weight was an issue.

They were watching fireworks so possibly/maybe favoured one side of the boat for viewing.

Jackets were mainly on.

No alcohol was involved.

Outside influence was possibly a wave or weather.

No way the boat was designed to carry that amount of people.
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Old 05-07-2012, 18:02   #51
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Re: sad news from the boating world

Its almost certainly a combo of the people all moving together with a wake. When you think about it, 27 people (if not real fat) is not that much weight. With the kids say less than 4000lbs, Most cruising boats that size get loaded with more weight than that.

More accurate to say not properly ballasted than overloaded.

I believe things like this are VERY rare and probably not worth making to big a deal out of.
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Old 05-07-2012, 18:31   #52
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Re: sad news from the boating world

All from the press release, did you read it?
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Old 05-07-2012, 19:35   #53
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Originally Posted by boatsail

I understand where you were coming from, I was simply trying to make the point that our society is to litigious.

Should the parent get in trouble for putting the child in that dangerous situation? NO. There was no criminal intent. If I were in a jury, I would think they are stupid, but not criminal and could not sleep at night if I were to vote guilty for stupidity. Each person in this world should have more ...personal accountability....I would not have put my self in that position and could not hold someone else accountable for my decision to be on the boat.
The skipper acted with negligence and people died because of that. No way was that loading safe. Whenever i see a vessel like that i call it in to whatever local authorities. If they want to ignore it, that's their prerogative.
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Old 05-07-2012, 19:43   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkSF
There is an official screening formula for boat capacity - it is length x beam / 15. For this boat, it comes out to 28. Now clearly that is very high, but according to that formula this boat was not overloaded. Now if there is also not a capacity plate.....

As reported, two of the kids who died were below in the cabin so did not have to be wearing life jackets.

So if the skipper did not break any laws, what could he be charged with? Being stupid is not sufficient, he needs to break a law.

It seems to me that one solution is proper capacity plates on all recreational vessels with a much more realistic capacity. Like right by the wheel in big red letters : capacity 10 passengers.
When the inspected boat i work on gets its passenger rating its done by several factors including available deck space. We have an inspected sport fisher that's 16 feet longer than the sailboat we are talking about here and our capacity is 17 passengers or 14 for overnights. Way more safety equipment, two licensed masters, and two deck hands.

The loading on that 34 wasn't safe. The arbitrary formula is not at all supposed to be used to exclude vessel characteristics or conditions.
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Old 05-07-2012, 19:46   #55
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Re: sad news from the boating world

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To those who question why there are safety inspections, why there are boardings at sea to check all things and why some of those officials generate a bad attitude at times then go no further....

THIS IS WHY!! Stupid is as stupid does.... Obviously and very sadly the message just isn't getting through.

Too bad they weren't boarded (if they could have squeezed on) so they could have counted the PFD's. We never would have known it, but lives would have been saved.
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Old 05-07-2012, 20:08   #56
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Re: sad news from the boating world

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Too bad they weren't boarded (if they could have squeezed on) so they could have counted the PFD's. We never would have known it, but lives would have been saved.
+1

It's one thing for all to get indignant about the inconvenience of being boarded, not only for inspections but for the dumbasses to understand dealing with nature is serious stuff. Education is whats needed.

STABILITY- The passenger loading is calculated using a load of info, not one rule of thumb for all. Life is never that simple.

If a boat has an upperdeck where say 10 people can fit then that's used as a worst case scenario ie all ten on one side at highest point.

By the facts? quoted in the press release it indicates someone took a risk to accomodate a happy party.

Very sad....
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Old 05-07-2012, 20:11   #57
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Re: sad news from the boating world

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27 onboard? I didn't know they made people that stupid (and I don't just include the Skipper).

I dunno if it is better or worse that the Skipper was not drunk (apparently).
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Old 05-07-2012, 20:12   #58
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Re: sad news from the boating world

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I had a thanksgiving party when I owned my 40 ft trawler. I was tied up to the dock with 17 to 20 aboard and on the dock. A family of 10 ( big folks) decided to run up on the bridge. They all ran to one side. It kinda freaked me out to feel my vessel heel so much in the slip, straining the lines. I cant imagine 27 people on that power boat, this is not in any way a borderline call IMO. But landlubbers should not be expected to understand this, except the basic understanding that kids need lifejacket, though they could of been down below. No, this all on the captain.

Yes, it's up to the captain. But one report I saw said the boat was a new purchase. Maybe he just didn't know.

We tacked a boat in very light air last night by having everyone put their weight on the starboard side. It definitely made the boat roll -- not roll over, of course. It got us through the tack. I really think sailors tend to know more about their boats than power boaters.
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Old 05-07-2012, 20:16   #59
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Re: sad news from the boating world

Dinghy tactics eh???

Agree.
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Old 05-07-2012, 20:19   #60
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Re: sad news from the boating world

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Dinghy tactics eh???

Agree.
It's not just a dinghy tactic. It worked extremely well on my 25' Irwin (the skinny one, 8' wide) with only three people aboard. This boat was 27' but there were seven people aboard.
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