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Old 05-07-2012, 09:36   #16
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Re: sad news from the boating world

That boat could hold twice as many people, if they were Haitians and if they stayed outta the flyin bridge. Low ballast makes the boat more stable, not less.
Lifejackets, boat wakes, common boat sense tells me these are stupid things, it says to me folks were jamming the bridge and the boat rolled down.
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Old 05-07-2012, 09:39   #17
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Re: sad news from the boating world

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criminal prosecution isnt the answer.... public knowldge and awareness is the answer...

prosectuion will punish those 'responsible' but the bigger issue is deterrent...

without public knowing of this event then it will be repeated, and I am sure it has happened in the past...

I'm not so sure about that. If I crammed 27 people into an SUV and had an accident, I would be held accountable for the deaths. It should have been quite clear that the boat was seriously overloaded.

But you know, it's so easy. I was on someone's boat last night to see fireworks. There were two children on the boat who had never been on a sailboat before -- and it just now dawned on me that they did not have life jackets on. We had all sorts of problems to solve last night as well, but no life jackets on those kids.

In FL, only children under six are required to wear them, but wouldn't it have been prudent? But they would have been the only children in a crowd of 35 people (among five boats rafted up) who would have been in jackets, and social pressure comes into play.

I was a guest on someone else's boat. I think the assumption that a child doesn't need a jacket because he or she is six is a huge, and unwise, one.
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Old 05-07-2012, 09:51   #18
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Do we now need to start putting capacity placards on boats in the 30 something foot range because some people do not know not to put 27 people on a 34 foot boat?
Actually, I think that this is a good idea. The USCG Federal Boat Safety Act of 1971 only required boats under 20' to have capacity placards. Why not extend this to boats twice that length? Obviously, the boating manufacturers would resist, but lives might be saved regardless.

I saw a lot of overloaded boats going out last night to watch the fireworks. However, in fairness to the owners, the only way to know their boat's capacity would be to have it inspected to qualify as a small passenger vessel. And even though you can find guidelines for conducting a self-test online, it's such a complicated procedure that few would undertake it.

I'm sure some boat owners last night were thinking, "Ah, I'm just going out for fireworks--not crossing an ocean. As long as I've got enough PFDs aboard...." However, when all those passengers rush to the starboard rail at the same time.....
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Old 05-07-2012, 10:19   #19
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Re: sad news from the boating world

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Actually, I think that this is a good idea. The USCG Federal Boat Safety Act of 1971 only required boats under 20' to have capacity placards. Why not extend this to boats twice that length? Obviously, the boating manufacturers would resist, but lives might be saved regardless.

I saw a lot of overloaded boats going out last night to watch the fireworks. However, in fairness to the owners, the only way to know their boat's capacity would be to have it inspected to qualify as a small passenger vessel. And even though you can find guidelines for conducting a self-test online, it's such a complicated procedure that few would undertake it.

I'm sure some boat owners last night were thinking, "Ah, I'm just going out for fireworks--not crossing an ocean. As long as I've got enough PFDs aboard...." However, when all those passengers rush to the starboard rail at the same time.....

We were rafted up to a boat that is exactly like mine (except that his has a rudder in it -- sigh). He had maybe 8 adults on his boat. All were in the cockpit, and the stern of the boat was well below its normal water line. Now, that was a 31' boat. I think they weigh about 9700 lb. empty. I'm assuming that if he had had seven people of equal weight on the bow the whole boat would have been riding lower. That's only 14 people on a 31' boat.
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Old 05-07-2012, 10:51   #20
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Re: sad news from the boating world

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If we don't want licensing then expect a greater death toll out on the water each year. That is the price. It's hard to say if the price is worth it in the name of individual liberties. What is human life worth versus the value of individual liberties?

We license everyone who flies an airplane or drives a car in the name of reducing the human death toll. Is it right to do that?
I share your mixed feelings, but IIRC, boating fatalities have been going down for years even though more people are boating. BoatUS publishes the stats.

Licensing is a contentious issue, but the old saw seems true to me: licensing for cars don't get the idiots off the roads, do they?

Human life and liberties are really NOT the issue. That's like the other old saw: if you give up your freedom for security is it worth it.

Wanna learn how to use correct safety methods on a boat? Learn how to read. BoatSafe.com - Boating Safety, Boating Courses, Boating Articles

There will be a-holes wherever ya go. It's nature of human beings. A 34 motoryacht costs a lot of $$. $$ doesn't buy brains. Nor can it account for stupidity.
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Old 05-07-2012, 11:00   #21
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Debating what could have / should have been done does not bring back the lives lost.

The victims were:

David Aurelino, 12

Harley Treanor, 11

Victoria Gaines, 8

These three children were loved ones, family members of other people also involved in this accident. Imagine one minute all is fine, and the next heartbeat, your child is lost in the dark cold water. No greater horror could hit any parent.

I am so sorry for the loss of these children. All of us, go home and hug your families.
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Old 05-07-2012, 11:03   #22
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Re: sad news from the boating world

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Debating what could have / should have been done does not bring back the lives lost.

I don't get your point -- so therefore we shouldn't talk about it???
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Old 05-07-2012, 11:10   #23
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I don't get your point -- so therefore we shouldn't talk about it???
You caught me mid post. I posted and left to copy the names and came back to finish.
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Old 05-07-2012, 11:17   #24
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Re: sad news from the boating world

I do think if there are any criminal charges, they should only be applied to the Captain. He's in charge, so if he allows that many people, it's his fault.

What is most unfortunate is that this is not widely publicized. Had Katy Perry slipped and broken her wrist yesterday, it would be all over the news. Yet 3 kids lost their lives and I haven't seen it on our local news. If stuff like this was more widely reported and reported to not only report the news but state how unsafe it is to have that many people on a boat, people might learn from it.
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Old 05-07-2012, 12:21   #25
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Re: sad news from the boating world

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Originally Posted by bruce smith View Post
That boat could hold twice as many people, if they were Haitians and if they stayed outta the flyin bridge. Low ballast makes the boat more stable, not less.
Lifejackets, boat wakes, common boat sense tells me these are stupid things, it says to me folks were jamming the bridge and the boat rolled down.
Whether or not the stability is increased by putting weight down low is not that simple. It depends on where the new weight goes with respect to the boats existing center of gravity and where its new center of buoyancy shifts when the boat assumes a list. Another factor that is also critical when inclining or in rough seas is the reduction in freeboard when adding weight to a boat.
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Old 05-07-2012, 12:23   #26
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Re: sad news from the boating world

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I do think if there are any criminal charges, they should only be applied to the Captain. He's in charge, so if he allows that many people, it's his fault.

What is most unfortunate is that this is not widely publicized. Had Katy Perry slipped and broken her wrist yesterday, it would be all over the news. Yet 3 kids lost their lives and I haven't seen it on our local news. If stuff like this was more widely reported and reported to not only report the news but state how unsafe it is to have that many people on a boat, people might learn from it.

Actually I've seen lots of coverage about it. It wouldn't be on "local" news, though, unless you lived near Oyster Bay. It happened late last night. See what is on tonight.

Unless the skipper of that boat had a PFD for every single person on that boat, of the right size, he was grossly negligent, and I think he should be charged.

If this happened just because a boat went by, then the boat wasn't seaworthy -- maybe because of overloading, or it was skippered badly. Turning into a wave is so basic it's hard to imagine not doing that, but maybe there were just too many people for him to see clearly. We had a full (or nearly full) moon here that rose early and really helped as we struggled with our multiple problems. Maybe it was cloudy in Oyster Bay and they didn't have that advantage, but I'm thinking the boat had to be riding very low to be swamped by a wake.

I was on a much less crowded boat and adults were constantly accounting for all the children, including one who is 16. They took responsibility for their children.

How can you keep track of 27 people on a boat? If someone had fallen overboard would they even have known?
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Old 05-07-2012, 12:33   #27
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Re: sad news from the boating world

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Originally Posted by bruce smith View Post
That boat could hold twice as many people, if they were Haitians and if they stayed outta the flyin bridge. Low ballast makes the boat more stable, not less.
Lifejackets, boat wakes, common boat sense tells me these are stupid things, it says to me folks were jamming the bridge and the boat rolled down.
How much freeboard do you think it had at the cockpit even if all were below the waterline. I've got to think it wouldn't take more than a 1 ft wave to come over the gunnel. 12000# boat with 4 to 5000# of people.
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Old 05-07-2012, 13:13   #28
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Re: sad news from the boating world

My 25' power boat has a placard with the weight/person limit. It is insanely high. I regularly see boats like the Silvertron way overloaded on the lake I live on.
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Old 05-07-2012, 13:25   #29
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Look at the freeboard, the overhang and the fly bridge, and imagine the heeling force of 27 people running around. Now imagine a choppy, windy night (per the news article), in a crowded harbor, and the type of quick maneuvering that would be required. This was a tragedy waiting to happen.
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Old 05-07-2012, 14:34   #30
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Re: sad news from the boating world

27 onboard? I didn't know they made people that stupid (and I don't just include the Skipper).

I dunno if it is better or worse that the Skipper was not drunk (apparently).
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