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Old 10-09-2011, 02:29   #1
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More Men-and-Women Issues

As a carry on from the previous post, certain things have come to my attention this week and im partly amused and partly bemused.

In the yard here there are a few businesses and there are loads of guys in and out all day. We all get on great and many have been a great help and we have some good laughs together.

I just get on with life, doing what ive got to do and kinda take it for granted that im building a boat, sometihing which isnt a typical girly thing to be doing. So there has been a lot of interest, most is congratulatory and the rest is a little bemused.

In my more robust moments I dont realy care much what others think, but I have a softer sensitive side too. About 3 weeks ago, a guy came in the yard and made it obvious he fancied me cos he wrote his number on my arm and asked me to dinner - 'No strings attached'

So, being the inquisitive type, I called him and we went out several times over the last 2 weeks. We got talking the other night and he said he accepts and admires me, unlike some of the other guys here who simply cant work me out, and that tickles him.

So, when pressed further to explain, he said they feel highly suspicious of my knowledge and abilities, simply because 'normal' women dont do stuff like this.

Now I know British people are rather behind much of the world when it comes to gender equality, unless its war time, when there are no job rules, but in peace time, women dont do overtly masculine jobs, and if they do, aspersions are made as to their sexuality and true gender.

Of course it cuts two ways. Male nurses dont seem to raise eyebrows anymore but male nursery and infant school workers are laughed at and whilst a school janitor is usually male, a cleaner isnt. Company secretaries are male but not office secretaries. Men are chefs but never cooks, men are tailors but dont sew. Sail makers are different.

So, last Tuesday, I asked a guy to help me lift the genny into the engine room. He decided he could manage it alone and when I tried to help, he told me to get out of the way cos it was too heavy and would make my balls drop. The same guy was stood in the yard a month ago talking to another guy. We flirt a little sometimes and as I walked by, I had a cordless drill in my hand and held it against his ass and pulled the trigger. He jumped and the other guy asked if I had touched him with my cock.

Is that what that what they realy think of me. More importantly, what do YOU think?

So, is a capable woman realy a gender deviant?
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Old 10-09-2011, 02:39   #2
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Re: More men and women issues

Great topic. I can't understand how you got all this knowledge without understanding that men are victims of their heritage. 'Any woman Might' being the inborn basis learned from the wisdom of ages and those traumtic school and teenage years. Plus, of course, that we never ever understand why women like the spotty geek, the brainless football star, or the dustmen with the muscles and ready smile.
Non of this applies to me of course, just a comment on the mysteries of that other species.
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Old 10-09-2011, 03:27   #3
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Re: More men and women issues

My wife, Nell, is one of the most competent people I have ever met:

Beijing station chief for a major airline.

Successful 6-figure-income business women.

On the boat she is 'officer in command' even when the crew includes a retired major general or an a ocean racer with a dozen Bermuda Race and Transpacs.

USCG master's licence.

20,000 sea miles, stood her own single-handed watch in a F9 gusting F10 while I slept and parks our 55 ft boat without the bowthruster.

Recently, with a broken bowthruster, we parked our 55 ft boat in a 59 ft space between $6,000,000 of boats and the success was due to Nell in the dinghy correcting every maneuvering error I made.

A very precise project manager when the boat had major work...the yard workers had no doubt who was in charge.

She is wonderful but not as aggressive as my daughter who is equally competent! But they are both loving mothers and very feminine when they want to be...

They are just intrinsically competent people! A fact that is very obvious to anyone who sails with them!

And, oh yes, I am a Brit.
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Old 10-09-2011, 03:44   #4
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Re: More men and women issues

Hi Anjou,

From my typical latino / macho / male / more than conservative on male-female role in society and couple (and I completely assume that) mindset, here are my thoughts:

I admire first of all because you choose your life and decided on your own which way to go.

Then I admire you because you are doing a terrific work that most of the people could not do or would be afraid to try, regardless their gender.

I carry on admiring you because, as a woman, you are doing so much the society is not expecting a woman to achieve, that you are exposing yourself to criticism, kidding and other unpleasant behavior towards you, it can be challenging everyday.

I am still admiring you because you are the evidence that there is no "female job" or "male job" and that modern society allows whoever wants to do it to be free to do so...and it could not be possible if some individuals, like you, do prove it time to time.

My girlfriend (more than 17 years together...) can be very sexy because of her dress and so on, but I also find here very sexy when she achieves her duty aboard in harsh condition and that I am sure that she is the best first mate I can have in any situation at sea...so she has the capacity to be something else than simply a woman, regardless the gender of the task (if any...) she is acomplishing.

And these are the strongest links we have.

If one you met can not appreciate the quality you have (and you have plenty obviously), just ignore him.

"les chiens aboient et la caravane passe".

And congratulation for the boat, indeed!
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Old 10-09-2011, 04:02   #5
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Re: More men and women issues

I think you're the cat's meow, anjou! Seriously! I watched the last few years in the shipyards as more women were hired as welders, some who were as good as any guy & some who were as bad. I also listened to a lot of crude remarks from my buddies &, to some, every female welder was a dyke(Not that there's anything wrong with that). When the daughter of the president of our union started welding in the drydock, there wasn't a vulgar slur I didn't hear whispered about her. But, let me tell you, she was one of the top welders in the yard &, until she had her hand messed up by a falling plate, I used to respond to the snide remarks with, "yeah, but she can out-weld you!" Anyone with a brain, some level of decency & pride in doing quality work appreciates others who turn out nice work, regardless of gender or race or sexual persuasion. Most guys who build boats would kill to have a wife like you, to work alongside of, as well. But, when the less-couth are cracking jokes, most guys don't have the cojones to speak their hearts. Easier to remain silent. So don't be afraid to pull some guy that you like aside & invite him for a beer and don't sweat that a lot of guys are intimidated by a woman doing the "unconventional".
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Old 10-09-2011, 04:21   #6
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Re: More men and women issues

Absolutely Bangkaboat, we have the same equipment, mental power, muscle arrangement etc. It's all in the hormones. We may tease the ladies about theirs but we are much more at the mercy of ours.
I do not disparage ladies in any way because of their gender. I wouldn't dare.
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Old 10-09-2011, 04:44   #7
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Re: More men and women issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by anjou View Post
As a carry on from the previous post, certain things have come to my attention this week and im partly amused and partly bemused.

In the yard here there are a few businesses and there are loads of guys in and out all day. We all get on great and many have been a great help and we have some good laughs together.

deleted for space


So, last Tuesday, I asked a guy to help me lift the genny into the engine room. He decided he could manage it alone and when I tried to help, he told me to get out of the way cos it was too heavy and would make my balls drop. The same guy was stood in the yard a month ago talking to another guy. We flirt a little sometimes and as I walked by, I had a cordless drill in my hand and held it against his ass and pulled the trigger. He jumped and the other guy asked if I had touched him with my cock.

Is that what that what they realy think of me. More importantly, what do YOU think?

So, is a capable woman realy a gender deviant?
No...but when anyone falls too far outside accepted norms you raise suspicion. How you look and act when NOT working on the boat can do a LOT to sway peoples thoughts back to center.

I saw it flying helos. Most woman pilots could fly circles around the guys as long as it was training...once we hit real operations that required quick thinking outside the box...it was their downfall. Now that is a gross generalization like most generalizations...it didn't apply to all men or women pilots I flew with...just a gross generalization. I think it was because of how we all grew up and I am talking about the early days of women in the military. The selection process to even get where they were may have had that narrowing affect as opposed to selecting women specifically to become pilots which may have eliminated that issue.

Anyhow...being a woman in a mans world or the other way around makes smaller minds wander enough to let them think there's more to the story.... sometimes there is....sometimes there isn't. It's how you act outside of that environment that can easily change all but the smallest of minds...
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Old 10-09-2011, 05:18   #8
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Re: More men and women issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by anjou View Post
(...)
So, is a capable woman realy a gender deviant?
(...)
I think more men that women are competent in technological matters. How many will depend on the society we live in. Aside from social factors, I believe there are also biological differences that push men and women towards different job/hobby choices.

Alas, there are no clear cut borders, there is the spectrum. Some women are way more competent boat builders than many men ... while some men beat many women, hands down, in 'typically' (read: socially) feminine tasks/jobs.

So I will think, statistically, there are differences, BUT the clear-cut border between sexes has been smartly invented by religions and later gladly accepted by politics. But to me, expecting others (and ourselves) to live along such borders is pure BS and I say let everybody do what they feel they are.

Any boat building woman will be as good or bad as a any boat building man. If someone in the boatyard where you are claims otherwise, SIMPLY DO NOT hire them nor buy their services - let them sell and serve to their fellow alpha males.

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Old 10-09-2011, 05:38   #9
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Re: More men and women issues

Men and women should have a good partnership and special companionship to each other and must treat each other equally.
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Old 10-09-2011, 06:31   #10
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Re: More men and women issues

I think you're an amzing woman, person, and delicious too......i2f
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Old 10-09-2011, 08:21   #11
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Re: More men and women issues

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So, is a capable woman realy a gender deviant?
I know that a capable woman is the only type I'd bring voyaging. The deviancy I leave for the privacy of the aft cabin.

Not to discount the value of "the feminine point of view/touch/emotional insight", but the sea doesn't give a damn either way, in my experience. Prudence, knowledge, an ability to react constructively to rapidly changing circumstances and a certain indifference to physical strains, minor injuries or sleep deprivation are all going to be positives (to a point) on a voyage.

An interesting approach my wife and I have taken in our "prep years" prior to casting off for extended cruising is to seek out yacht deliveries and to crew on them separately. That way, we have different experiences with different crew and skippers and expand our toolkits, so to speak, in different ways.

She also helms a lot as I don't insist on grabbing the penis analogue of the tiller all the time, as many male sailors insist on doing, and I actually prefer trimming the sails for best performance rather than helming, which can get boring. Of course, "out there", she'll be pulling as many night watches as I will, so a certain parity of seamanship is necessary.

While deferring to the fact that I'm a foot taller and stronger, I would hope that she, or any woman I sail with, would take an equal role in running the boat safely and effectively. I find competence sexy, and not threatening to my self-worth as a man.
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Old 10-09-2011, 08:35   #12
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Re: More men and women issues

anjou, there are many insecure males in this world, they react in jealousy. the ones who respond well are in better touch with their abilities and knowledge.
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Old 10-09-2011, 08:44   #13
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Re: More men and women issues

What is not the norm interests people of both sexes. It's a natural thing for people to notice things that are not normal. It is how they respond that matters.
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Old 10-09-2011, 09:06   #14
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Hey Anjou....
You and I should get together...
With the guys thinking your a 'Butch' wanna be...
and most folks... including a few women... thinking I'm Gay... (I like cooking/hate football/love female company... )
We'd really blow a few minds.....
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Old 10-09-2011, 09:06   #15
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Re: More men and women issues

Round these parts she'd be burnt as a Witch

But we be island folk. with island ways...........
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