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Old 16-01-2016, 11:01   #16
amc
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Re: Kitty+Wasp Spray+Firecrackers = Perfect Security System? [Kinda Long]

I read somewhere else to use Bear Spray. Not sure of the legalities of carrying that around...
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Old 16-01-2016, 11:30   #17
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Re: Kitty+Wasp Spray+Firecrackers = Perfect Security System? [Kinda Long]

"I read somewhere else to use Bear Spray. Not sure of the legalities of carrying that around..."

This will at least have something close to the effect that the OP is looking for. Wasp Spray is a giant urban myth. You can check on Snopes or simply google it. The big issue is that for a larger mammal, it doesn't have the right ingredients or concentrations to create quick incapacitation or discomfort. If you are kinda serious about protecting yourself, this is not the road to go down.

There is no such thing as the perfect security system, and there certainly isn't anything even close when you don't want to spend much of anything on it. Everything involves trade-offs. A large dog, while inconvenient for many purposes, would likely be superior to all the things you have listed. I won't go down the firearms derail...

Tankersteve
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Old 16-01-2016, 11:41   #18
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Re: Kitty+Wasp Spray+Firecrackers = Perfect Security System? [Kinda Long]

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Originally Posted by zengirl View Post
At home, by my bed I keep a spray bottle with ammonia in it.
Is that to clean up those reprobates you drag home from the bar? Sorry....couldn't resist!!!
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Old 16-01-2016, 11:45   #19
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Re: Kitty+Wasp Spray+Firecrackers = Perfect Security System? [Kinda Long]

A large dog does not work. Our 200 pound dog is worthless as security since he attracts attention from virtually all mammals. Almost everyone seems to want to pet him, ride him, or hug him. Once in a while some do flee from the sight of him. Bigger the dog, the more of a teddy bear they become. Small noisy dogs are probably a better bet.
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Old 16-01-2016, 11:59   #20
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Re: Kitty+Wasp Spray+Firecrackers = Perfect Security System? [Kinda Long]

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Originally Posted by longboatman View Post
Is that to clean up those reprobates you drag home from the bar? Sorry....couldn't resist!!!
hahahaha no, but when I splash in July 2016 it will be!!!
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Old 16-01-2016, 13:20   #21
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Re: Kitty+Wasp Spray+Firecrackers = Perfect Security System? [Kinda Long]

Hi PK,

Welcome back...

I've had cats live onboard off-and-on for 28 years or so [obviously not the same ones...] The manx who I raised since a kitten onboard was the best traveler. [Airplanes, cars, boats, dinghy, you name it; he was game...] He first boarded the boat riding in my shirt pocket... He was more like a dog, beguiled everyone, and growled when alerted to something I rarely sensed. He lived and traveled with me on 3 different vessels over the years. I miss him still...

Currently we have two cats who adopted us on land and now lead a boating cat's life. Of those, one growls... but neither are attack cats.

As for other personal protection measures we have used over time- while we continue living and boating in Alaska and Canada- our primary is Bear Spray. [legal to carry in both Alaska and Canada- as long as it is literally labeled 'Bear Spray'...] We carry this out of habit mainly for shore excursions in bear country- which is everywhere on land in Alaska and western Canada... It is a highly effective deterrent for any organism with mucous membranes- including the 'good guys'... [We joke that bears like spicy food too...]

Almost as effective for on board use [and this comes from years in the field as a wildlife biologist in yet another life...] is a mixture of ammonia and cayenne pepper [cayenne for staying power...] loaded into a quality, leakproof liquid squirting device for lightly dousing the face and eyes of an aggressor animal...

I would like to share at this point that both of these deterrents only work before aggressive behavior escalates to an extreme level. [This from several personal observations of fighting carnivores so treated.] After that, the aggressions continue, but the aggressors are now just temporarily blinded... [ i.e., it won't break-up the fight or stall any aggressive behavior... I have also heard from several friends in law enforcement that this, too, applies to humans...]

RE: Wasp killer; others have already informed you it doesn't work for this use. [Although I would rather not be one of the test dummies...]

I have always used automobile starting fluid [canned ether] on wasp nests- the first time because it is what I had on hand... It squirts a stream a great distance and takes out the nest in no time [but is extremely flammable!] My hunch is this might also be highly effective when sprayed in the face and eyes of mammals for temporarily disabling/incapacitating as well, but haven't found any human volunteers for testing...

All of these deterrents will cause [as observed and experienced first-hand] temporarily reduced vision and extreme discomfort/agitation for all who come in contact with them on their face. Only the ether might also temporarily incapacitate the intruder(s)...

Therefore, a very important part of self-protection is having a practiced game plan for either incapacitating the flailing, angry blind aggressor(s) in close quarters after treatment, or escaping the situation without having to go near them during their [temporary!] period of disability. [Not unlike a fire fighting/escape plan...]

Be warned: If you touch any Bear Spray or ammonia/cayenne residue, and then your face, [or get over-sprayed when you 'shoot'...] you will be blinded for 15 minutes or more... Therefore having a supply of decontamination wipes might be prudent, along with goggles/swim mask before spraying... But even these wipes take 3-4 mins before you can see again... [In the past, training for Mace/pepper spray licensing started with everyone receiving the touch of a cotton swab doused with either agent on one cheek... Not a pleasant experience! This made the point of thinking twice before inflicting either agent on anything else!]

Basically, it is best to avoid blinding oneself with an aggressor around...

May you never need anything but your [future] feline(s)...

Cheers!

Bill
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Old 16-01-2016, 13:36   #22
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Re: Kitty+Wasp Spray+Firecrackers = Perfect Security System? [Kinda Long]

Pepper spray is a mixture a carrier and OC(oleoresin capsicum) aka pepper. The OC is in a percentage from say .2% to 10%. I have not seen a spray higher that 18% and those seem to be in bear/dog sprays. The higher percentage is not supposed to affect the effects of the spray, only how long the effects last.

If OC is in the eyes, and you want to hit the eyes, it will cause you to want to close your eyes and never open them again. Keeping your eyes closed after being sprayed is a good thing, a wonderful thing, because opening your eyes HURTS!

OC on the skin simply burns and is uncomfortable to say the least.

One's sinus will drain from the OC.

OC that is inhaled will make it hard to breathe. It does not suffocate but it degrades one's physical performance and it might make you sick on the stomach.

A person hit by OC in the face that covers the eyes and is inhaled, will have reduced performance because of swollen airways, eyes will be closed and painful to open, draining sinuses, coughing, burning skin, possibly a wee bit of upset stomach. The person hit by OC is a hurting, blind, coughing, gagging, sinus draining, and possibly puking mass of humanity.

Or not at all. There are some people who are not affected by the stuff. Or they will keep on attacking for a time before the OC effects really take hold.

Almost certainly, the person spraying will be hit by some of the spray but not as bad as the target.

The carrier in OC is important. Some pepper sprays use water as the carrier and OC is an oil. Oil and water don't stay mixed so the spray needs to be shaken before use. Not really a good attribute for a defensive spray. Alcohol is often used as a carrier since it mixes with alcohol. The problem is that alcohol is flammable which is not a problem in an open space but in a confined space it can be an issue....

Years ago the NYPD had a barricaded suspect who would not surrender so they threw in OC grenades. After many OC grenades the suspect still would not surrender. Not sure why since he was covered in OC....

They had to go into the room to get him so they tossed in a flash bang. The flash bang went flash bang, and since the guy was covered in alcohol based OC, it was not a pretty result.

While fact checking some things, I noticed that there do not seem to be any "tear gas" only defense sprays, they all seem to be pure OC or a mixture. Tear gas is not pleasant but I don't think it is as effective as OC.

Sprays are just that, a spray, which is a problem. A spray that is a mist/fog is easier to hit an attacker but the mist/fog is also likely to get blown away and blown into the defender. You also have to close to the attacker which is not a good thing.

A spray that is a stream has a greater reach but is also affected by wind. It is also harder to hit a moving face but it does give one range and lessons the odds of being sprayed by ones spray.

OC is considered a less than lethal use of force. It is better than nothing and has its uses but it has its limitations.

Some countries and some US state do not allow the possession of OC by civilians.

Later,
Dan
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Old 16-01-2016, 13:55   #23
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Re: Kitty+Wasp Spray+Firecrackers = Perfect Security System? [Kinda Long]

Quote:
Originally Posted by tankersteve View Post

There is no such thing as the perfect security system, and there certainly isn't anything even close when you don't want to spend much of anything on it. Everything involves trade-offs. A large dog, while inconvenient for many purposes, would likely be superior to all the things you have listed. I won't go down the firearms derail...

Tankersteve
Being in a tank is pretty close though.
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Old 16-01-2016, 13:56   #24
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Re: Kitty+Wasp Spray+Firecrackers = Perfect Security System? [Kinda Long]

Using bug spray, and what has not been mentioned here but might be, brake cleaner, as a defensive spray is problematic.

Why?
  • Bug killers and brake cleaners have a variety of chemicals which might or might not affect someone. You just do know and mostly like the spray will do NOTHING, or worse, it WILL do SOMETHING. Something worse than intended.
  • The use of force in the US is fairly well defined and the affects of OC spray on humans is well understood while bug spray and brake cleaners are not.
  • I have had brake cleaners that will irritate the heck out of exposed skin and I would hate to think what it would do to a person's eyes. If someone boarded a boat to steal a radio and they were sprayed, which then caused blindness, me thinks that the sprayer is going to have a legal problem in the US and in some other countries.

There are defensive sprays on the market. Buy/carry them if the local laws allow, one feels the need too carry, and think you can use them.

Later,
Dan
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Old 16-01-2016, 14:06   #25
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Re: Kitty+Wasp Spray+Firecrackers = Perfect Security System? [Kinda Long]

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Being in a tank is pretty close though.
But can Tankersteve fit a tank on his boat?

If so, can Tankersteve cross the boarder with said tank in a boat?

As an aside, the English language is so messed up..... I don't understand how anyone can learn English as a second language.

Later,
Dan
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Old 16-01-2016, 14:16   #26
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Re: Kitty+Wasp Spray+Firecrackers = Perfect Security System? [Kinda Long]

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Originally Posted by dannc View Post
But can Tankersteve fit a tank on his boat?

If so, can Tankersteve cross the boarder with said tank in a boat?

As an aside, the English language is so messed up..... I don't understand how anyone can learn English as a second language.

Later,
Dan
Here's a picture of Steve's boat from his profile;
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Old 16-01-2016, 14:18   #27
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Re: Kitty+Wasp Spray+Firecrackers = Perfect Security System? [Kinda Long]

Oh for sure a Jack Russell terrier, very protective, very alert, can be very noisy, fearless ...will kill intruder critters (rats etc) and attack any size aggressor.
They aren't keen on the water (unlike our lab who would jump in the water to chase ducks)
They are small and don't take up much room.
and they have lovely personalities.

Bill
Owner of many different breeds but lover of Jack Russells
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Old 16-01-2016, 14:27   #28
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Re: Kitty+Wasp Spray+Firecrackers = Perfect Security System? [Kinda Long]

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Originally Posted by dannc View Post
.

Sprays are just that, a spray, which is a problem. A spray that is a mist/fog is easier to hit an attacker but the mist/fog is also likely to get blown away and blown into the defender.
Not quite, Dan. I have 2 cans on CS Gell. That's tear gas in a gell. Squirt on their face into the wind and it sticks and acts.

And CS gas for down wind.
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Old 16-01-2016, 14:38   #29
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Re: Kitty+Wasp Spray+Firecrackers = Perfect Security System? [Kinda Long]

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Originally Posted by anacapaisland42 View Post
Oh for sure a Jack Russell terrier, very protective, very alert, can be very noisy, fearless ...will kill intruder critters (rats etc) and attack any size aggressor.
They aren't keen on the water (unlike our lab who would jump in the water to chase ducks)
They are small and don't take up much room.
and they have lovely personalities.

Bill
Owner of many different breeds but lover of Jack Russells
I'd agree. Growing up I/we had a Jack or Rat or Fox or mutt terrier. One hell of a protective sea dog but knew when and when not to exhibit that trait. Could swim like a fish.
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Old 17-01-2016, 03:53   #30
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Re: Kitty+Wasp Spray+Firecrackers = Perfect Security System? [Kinda Long]

Lol. Steve's got a tough boat there. I'd prefer something a tad more comfy though.

I've always liked JR Terriers but Ive never had one myself. I just can't get past the idea of how irritating it would be to have to clean up all the messes a pooch might leave behind despite it's best efforts. I've heard of fake grass that some people use to get their dogs to stay in the same area every time when they can't be taken for a walk, but I'm not sure where that would belong on a boat? Foredeck? Galley? (Right next to your stove or kitchen table?)

I hate the idea of hurting someone for life (With wasp spray or some other weaponized chemicals, unexpectedly or intentionally). But having to choose between my life and a thief's sight is not exactly an ideal situation.

Love the idea of having some bear spray "just in case!" Who's to say you aren't just storing it in the cabin until you're closer to bear country? (Lol) Would international customs ever *really* make a fuss about that kind of thing???

Maybe the best a sailor can do is just make his or her vessel as unattractive a target as possible and not leave anything easy to take in the cockpit. (Rope railing, locking all hatches and doors and giving late-night passersby the evil eye to let them know you're watching.)

I imagine that if you're at sea and a skiff full of armed men is headed straight for you, there really isn't much you can do.
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