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Old 14-12-2007, 17:09   #91
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Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
I've always found it interesting how many men tweak and tweak the boat never relaxing, putting on the auto pilot, grabbing a book (or their mate) and enjoying a nice long tack.
Ahhhh.. I think you're onto something there. It actually took me many years and 3 boats to come to terms with the fact that I don't always like to sit still. Sure, there are days when a cold beer and a cool breeze is all I need. But there are other ways when the conditions are perfect and I still found myself wedged in some little compartment fiddling with something that clearly didn't need to be done that day... The topic warrants reflection. Just where do you glean your enjoyment from the "sailing" experience. I'd say there are a 1,000 answers to that one.
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Old 14-12-2007, 19:58   #92
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Ah, Purdue...That's not my post you've attributed to me.

I'll confess that sometimes I'll neatly dress the ends of a line simply because they look raggy and I've nothing better to do, but there are plenty of times that I've played "Nah, YOU steer the boat!" while simply kicking back.

And, let the ToDo list grow faster than the grass.[g]
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Old 14-12-2007, 22:10   #93
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Tons of wisdom in this thread. I am taking notes!
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Old 15-12-2007, 05:01   #94
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MI'm saying that for both sexes, or more properly, for all five natural genders.
We (people) can be described either by Sex or by Gender (which are NOT the same thing); but a sexual definition is more precise.

Because “gender” is a socially constructed characteristic, integral to one’s identity, which is defined only by oneself, to define oneself, at a given time; the possible number of genders may be infinite.

“Gender” describes those characteristics of women and men that are largely socially and or behaviorally created, while “sex” encompasses those that are biologically determined.

Biological sex is identified based on the external genitalia (i.e. penis or vagina) and gonads (i.e. testes or ovaries) present in an individual, or chromosomally (a normal human male has one X- and one Y- chromosome, and a normal human female has two X chromosomes). In contrast, gender identity refers to the self-identification in the brain of an individual as female or male.
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Old 15-12-2007, 06:50   #95
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Tons of wisdom in this thread.
Is there? well I'm not reading pages of how to kow tow. She either likes what I'm doing or theres vast quanitities of land for her to live on.
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Old 15-12-2007, 07:39   #96
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Yes, ye ole venus and mars thing. Hey, if I sounded like I was putiing my man down, I would like to take it back or rephrase. (if I could figure out how to edit, I would try) I do not regret what I've done, I learned lots about myself. He will always hold a special place in my heart. We just approach life differently. There are benefits to flying under the radar when appropriate, I just don't want to spend my whole life that way.

Adapting and accepting is key, it's work, hard work but the benefits are so worth it. We put ourselves in a very vulnerable position when we set sail, we rise to the challenge, it energizes us. We look for ways to improve our efforts at all times and are delighted when find a way to do it better. We respond immediately when our boat tells us she is unhappy for whatever reason. Some things can wait and some things can't. We try something and ask, "is this better? No? How about this?" When we see or sense a storm we head for a harbor of refuge to protect what we cherish. The same attitude between two people? Priceless.
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Old 16-12-2007, 23:00   #97
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The reason men all wear the same black tuxedo at the wedding is becuase we are all basically interchangeable. None of us are perfect and we are all "project" husbands that could use a little fixing up.

Call me cynical but this is the way I have viewed it over the last 21 years of marriage. I am never "done" and there are always imrpovements to be made.

The woman on the other hand is wrapped in a very special dress. She is the one I chose and she is perfect. No need to change a thing. Then you marry her and she changes completely.
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Old 17-12-2007, 16:39   #98
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And on a much lighter note...

HOW DO YOU DECIDE WHO TO MARRY? (written by kids)

You got to find somebody who likes the same stuff. Like, if you like sports, she should like it that you like sports, and she should keep the chips and dip coming. -- Alan, age 10


No person really decides before they grow up who they're going to marry. God decides it all way before, and you get to find out later who you're stuck with.-- Kristen, age 10

HOW CAN A STRANGER TELL IF TWO PEOPLE ARE MARRIED?
You might have to guess, based on whether they seem to be yelling at the same kids. -- Derrick, age 8

WHAT DO YOU THINK YOUR MOM AND DAD HAVE IN COMMON?
Both don't want any more kids.-- Lori, age 8

WHAT DO MOST PEOPLE DO ON A DATE?
Dates are for having fun, and people should use them to get to know each other. Even boys have something to say if you listen long enough. -- Lynnette, age 8

On the first date, they just tell each other lies and that Usually gets them interested enough to go for a second date. -- Martin, age 10



IS IT BETTER TO BE SINGLE OR MARRIED?
It's better for girls to be single but not for boys. Boys need someone to clean up after them.-- Anita, age 9


And the #1 Favorite is........
HOW WOULD YOU MAKE A MARRIAGE WORK?


Tell your wife that she looks pretty, even if she looks like a dump truck.
-- Ricky, age 10
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Old 05-01-2008, 01:55   #99
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hmm. interesting thread...

i worked as a nanny for many years. even in larval stages (ha!) men are very uncomplicated creatures, and girls very .. difficult. i don't want to use that word, i'd like to use something more flattering, not least because i am one. but we are. we are.

maybe i could use the term 'discerning'. if a man's words or manner put me off in the least, i will refuse to have anything to do with him - no conversation, eye contact, nothing. nothing at all. there's no need to: i have a posse of dedicated, smart, insightful, generous, loving, sympathetic and available girl-friends who not only appreciate my company but among whom we can share nearly anything we need. male company is a plus, and it has to be worth my while. when i read the 'yelling and screaming' thread my jaw spent a lot of time on the floor. why on earth would anyone put up with that?

Quote:
It doens't matter if we are about to crunch into a megapalace of a boat, a Marina pile that could send us to the bottom, or even if my life depended on it. If I yell, she drops the line and I have to apologise before she will pick it up. That learns ya fast.
see, that would be me. LOL except it never has to be, as geordie is too smart to yell at me, ever, including that tone that women call 'yelling' that guys say is 'not yelling' but actually is shorthand in women-ese, translation: 'use that tone again and you'll go the way of the anchor.'


keeping your lady happy on a boat isn't going to be much more complex than keeping her happy on land - so i think if there's some confusion, you have to ask yourself what your tactics are and how happy and connected you are in general. i read the 'prisoner of boat' post with interest, because it makes some excellent points. i would add that she doesn't *have* to trust you utterly on land, because she is not at your mercy - she's got transportation, income, ways and means - and if you intend to take those tools away and insist that you and a boat are going to be adequate to live safe, comfortable and happy - well, you had better hope that your manner in general was making a damned good case for it long before you even brought up the boat.

mostly, i have to be reassured that your demeanor and awareness are up to the task ahead of us - especially when what i know may or can not fill in the gaps. if you don't notice (or react appropriately to) the leak in the roof, should i expect the same when there's a leak through the seacock? if you leave the gas tank empty for me on land, what important instrument might you ignore from the cockpit? i don't have the instinct for these things, so reassure me - long before we get on the boat - that you are awake, trustworthy, and willing to take all this on.

land relationships have looser requirements: i can be very fond of you and you can be a lovely person with whom i enjoy everything from sex to scrabble on land and not have to consider my life being in your hands. once that's on the table, the power dynamic shifts dramatically. women who are already themselves brilliant sailors do not have to consider this as much, but those of us who are actively being recruited by men who loved us for other qualities and had no sailing experience can feel very helpless, sometimes for the first time. however the fairy tales go, i don't know many women who revel in helplessness. and very few such women would be pursued as candidates for cruising life, i would think.

if boat-mad men have a typical fault, i think it may be impatience. after years of daydreaming about a cruising life, there may just be a dearth of forethought going into how new and frightening (it should be frightening) this is for partners they'd like to have involved. in the excitement of finally getting on the boat and pointing in the direction you want to go, it's hard to think of anything besides cutting the dock line. meanwhile, we're wide-eyed with apprehension, facing a strange new world with its own language and no foundation of knowledge to draw off of, either. it would only be less than terrifying to a fool.

there are good reasons. growing up on the pacific coast, there was never a weather report between october and april when there is not a 'small craft advisory' on the coast. the columbia bar is notoriously dangerous. the water is a temperature that inspires hypothermia inside of the ten-minute mark. it's not a friendly coast for amateur sailing mistakes. while i'd rather have 'lost in the pacific' carved onto my headstone over 'suffered a coronary in her cubicle', i'm not in any hurry either way. if you're impatient with me on top of my own reasonable fears, i'm going to choose to live. screw you *and* the boat.

and i totally agree with rebelheart that elementary boat-learning should be outsourced when at all possible. anything that basic should be. learning to drive, ski, snowboard, read - these are things best learned and taught among non-intimates.
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Old 05-01-2008, 03:53   #100
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I've reached a point in life where being "responsible" for someone else's happiness is no longer a priority. After 26 years of career life, always doing the "right" thing for others, I feel a strong need for some "me" focus. Call it mid-life crisis if you like to label things. I don't label it.

I have a very strong sense of not "disturbing" other people's happiness but fundamentally a person's happiness becomes their reponsibility. By not disturbing another's happiness I guess I offer up consistency. That is, you will always know where you stand and you pretty much know how I will behave and react to things.

If another persons life and my life coexist in that environment, great.

On the boat there is no yelling and I have outfitted it to make sure other people's needs are met. This includes fridge, DVD players, music and so on. It's a great ride.

What I don't have any patience for are drama queens, princesses or people not prepared to take responsibility for themselves, their kit and their happiness.

Oh, well. 2 cents mode off...
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Old 05-01-2008, 03:59   #101
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Keeping a mate happy aboard

I think many of you are over engineering the problem!

With apologies to Robert A Heinlein: “if all else fails….rub her feet”
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Old 05-01-2008, 04:27   #102
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"Oh, my god! That lady's fainted!"

"Rub her wrists!"
"Rub her forehead!"
"Rub her neck!"
"Rubber balloons... Getcher, rubber balloons!"

- Benny Hill the balloon vendor...
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Old 05-01-2008, 11:42   #103
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In regards to people who are never happy just sitting there...

I was hanging out with some friends on their valiant 50 and the guy says to me "Edison didn't make the light bulb when he was playing bridge."

So I'm not saying that never relaxing is a good idea, but a quick sweep of people who have accomplished a lot in their lives reveals a lot of hard workers. The guy's marriage might have been crap (or it could have been great, I have no idea), but I thought it was a funny line anyway.
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Old 05-01-2008, 11:59   #104
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Some very interesting responses. I consider myself very fortunate in that my wife was the force behind purchasing our current boat and home. We saw this boat, loved it, and she made the choice to buy it. She also "pulled the trigger" to sell our house and move onboard. She loves it every bit as much as I do. Another poster commented on communication. Very important in my opinion. Sharing an active role in the operation of the boat is also very important. If a couple are going to cruise together, both need to be competent and able to handle all aspects of that boats operation. A mate that is only capable of sitting and watching will not be happy for very long. Back to that communication thing. It is my humble opinion that men are much more silent than women. Women tend to be more verbal in my experience. A woman will ask a question where a man may be content to just do whatever he may think needs doing all the while doing it wrong. And quite a few men will be content with this. Do men pull over to ask for directions when lost or simply go on lost? Answer questions guys. My wife got a little ticked at me when we got caught in some weather once. A situation arrose where something needed to be done immediately for the safety of our boat and us on it. She proceeded to ask "why"? Unfortunately, it was an instance where "just do it" had to be employed. I explained AFTER we had removed ourselves from a dangerous situation. She was a bit ticked because she did not understand WHY I was doing what I was doing. But I didn't have time to explain at that moment. I explained when I could. The captain of a boat may be either male or female. It matters not which. But there can only be one in an emergency. I have spoken with her about switching off on that "role" and we are both happy with the idea. It makes us both better crew. I understand the attitude of a previous poster who alluded to "finding her male counterpart on the end of an anchor is she did not agree with his tone". Independent is fine but not on a boat. Many things may "fly" on land that absolutely will not on a boat. I'm sure what she may have meant is to convey the thought of mutual respect. Cruising / Boating is NOT a male sport or hobby. Dominated by mostly males as say nursing is by females, but not an activity that can be dictated by ones gender. Ask any one of the many solo female sailors that have raced around the globe. If you have crew, teach everything that you are able to teach. A good crew is never born, it is made. Teamwork, respect, understanding, and in the case of your wife or girl- lots of love. Captain Bligh has no place on a boat. Neither the male OR the female variety.
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Old 08-01-2008, 05:50   #105
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... Another poster commented on communication. Very important in my opinion. Unexpected
... A situation arose where something needed to be done immediately for the safety of our boat and us on it. She proceeded to ask "why"? Unfortunately, it was an instance where "just do it" had to be employed. I explained AFTER we had removed ourselves from a dangerous situation. She was a bit ticked because she did not understand WHY I was doing what I was doing. But I didn't have time to explain at that moment. I explained when I could. The captain of a boat may be either male or female. It matters not which. But there can only be one in an emergency. I have spoken with her about switching off on that "role" and we are both happy with the idea ...
If you have crew, teach everything that you are able to teach. A good crew is never born, it is made. Teamwork, respect, understanding, and in the case of your wife or girl- lots of love.
Cruising couples will have a (sort of) bicameral relationship, which must be compartmentalized:
1. Wife and Husband
2. Master and Crew

Acute situations require immediate & effective actions.
In such instances, whosoever is Skipper, is not your loving, sensitive, best friend nor lifemate - but is your commander.
Commanders issue orders to be followed with alacrity, not suggestions inviting debate.

Most situations do not become unexpectedly acute emergencies, out of the blue. Accordingly, prudent preparation will often include discussions of potential situations (mission briefing), and their attendant remedies. This is this time for instruction (coaching c/w Q & A), respectful debate, and sensitive & loving communications between partners.
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