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Old 01-04-2006, 16:13   #16
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seagypsywoman

I love you already! But, gee, what man with any experience has NOT tried the flattery, flowers, and perfume route to a lady's heart? THEN, there is the "You don't send me flowers anymore". I can still hear that recording and change the radio channel.

Upon reflection other men, like myself, may feel that a womans natural skin fragrance (no, I don't mean BO) needs to be appreciated so that when you wake up with her she doesn't need purfume to be enjoyed (acheew!). Some women (and men I'm sure) just don't have a naturally appealing fragrance for me, some do.

Flowers don't last long unless they are in planters. Is it the extragavance of throwing away money for such a transient joy that makes the sacrifice open a woman's eyes or is it the mythical romance played out in her mind? Yes, I am aware that the simple act of giving flowers means something yet wonder about better ways of being romantic like affectionate behaviors?

Sincere flattery is something not to be limited to romance. It should be freely given to everyone deserving. So, does that leave over-flattery to gain the attention of a lady?

Because of the differences between sexes it is said that if a woman really wants to find out what we are like just have sex with us right away and that will remove all of the time, expense, and emotional energy from the process cutting straight to the end where the true answers lie. Afterwards the real personality is revealed by both.
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Old 01-04-2006, 16:54   #17
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You named names... :)

Ok, Rick. You named names, so I'm piping in.

I think I have it easy compared to most. After living in the small apartments in the city, my wife thinks most houses are a waste. She is not interested in wasting the Earth's resources just to try and compete with the Joneses. She prefers a simple lifestyle, but a very secure one. A comfortable boat fits this lifestyle perfectly. So, after introducing her to sailing, she wanted to move aboard as much as I did.

However, there are certain creature comforts your partner might require, and that you damn well better put at the top of the "to do list."

For us, it was running water, heat, and a dry bunk. All features our boat did not come with when we bought it. These were the very first things I did. My wife was pretty upset when those basics were not working.

As to the type of person your partner is... if you can kindle her own interest in sailing, I'm sure you'll be able to do it together. This may take many many years. Day sails, weekends, maybe the odd week here or there.

On the other hand.. Does she shop a lot? Focused on makeup? Needs a shiny new car? Needs a fancy house? Competes with her friends and/or brags at all? If the answer to some of these is yes... you will really have your work cut out for you. In fact, it may not even be possible. She has to have that spark deep down inside where she appreciates the peace and quiet, the nature, and the feeling sailing gives a person. This goes for men and women alike... it's more about "sailing people" than women. But women are people, so it applies!

The only other thing I can think of is that you will want to find someone who thinks like you do to some extent... especially about the stuff you were writing about in your last post. If what you said there is what she apprecaites, and you both have the same idea of fun us... you'll be all set no matter what happens.

Also, if you have a good relationship, and you're putting in your 50% into it... you'll be willing to give up sailing entirely for her. I would do it in a minute for my wife. Just make sure you BOTH want to do whatever it is you're doing. And from a guy with a BS in Physics and minor in CS... many women do not behave in a way men find logical. Let logic go and accept the vast rainbow of thought they have. Ironically, learning to live within the unpredictable elements is a real lot like sailing.

Hope I didn't ramble too much, or make an *ss out of myself. But it's the best I could do to impart my experience in a post on a forum and from the very very limited understanding I have from your posts.

Golden Rule: Accept each other for who you are, don't try and change anyone, and COMMUNICATE ALL THE TIME.

From my wife: Women are like cats. If you can relate to that animal and have one come over to you (you can't force one to). They get spooked easily. Play it cool, be calm, be yourself, and it will all happen naturally... and not logically.
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Old 01-04-2006, 18:45   #18
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My fiancee

Actually, Sean, you must be a great catch! If I were as debonair there would be far fewer frustrations with the ladies. I lived on board an aggregate total of 17 years and two boats. The previous cruising wife was quite an excellent partner and a good sailor as well.

Your last paragraph rings true with my present mate. I continue to make such discussions as these in order to both vent as well as learn to cope. Wouldn't it be nice if nuances of humor came across in this venue as well as it is in person? I smile the whole time that I contribute to this thread!
Thanks, everyone!
Rick
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Old 01-04-2006, 19:00   #19
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Sean, good advice. There are a few things that are critical to the survival of any relationship. Especially one aboard a boat, and even more so, one that involves travelling to places where the only person you will know is your mate.
First, and very important, (it only took me 30 some odd years to learn this) Just because she goes crazy once in a while, does not mean she IS crazy.
Second, you do not have to agree with each other on all things. In fact, different views make for good conversation, however, you must have a mate that you enjoy talking too, and who's opinion you respect, even if you do not agree.
And finally, Never sugar coat your life plans to sell them to your mate. When reality hits, no one will be happy. BEtter to talk about hauling water, and long walks to the customs offices up front. A mate that says she will hide below decks in a storm, does not mean she won't cruise. It just means you must be realistic, and realize that when the weather hits, it's your watch.
As for living in the small space of a boat, I doubt it will be a problem for most, but spending 12 hours in absolute terror with waves breaking on deck is. Until you experience it, you can not evaluate your ability to deal with it. You can not discount a potential mate because she says she is not sure if she will be able to handle it. In fact, she probably has a better grasp on the situation than most.
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Old 01-04-2006, 19:57   #20
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I really don't think there is a pat answer to this situation. As a first mate/admiral, I came to boating with a great love of the outdoors and the water and being on any boat felt as natural for me as being anywhere else. My relationship with my hubby is also strong and almost from the beginning I just had to think something and he would comment on it...or finish my sentence and I could do the same with him.

I knew from the beginning that Rick's lifelong dream was to have a boat. When he got the forst one we had great fun with it, but it was not really suitable for overnight trips. We didn't even have it a year when we traded it up for our current boat. We did many short, overnight trips that first year, and that is when we started to discuss selling everything at retirement and living on a boat. I fully embraced the idea and can hardly wait. No hesitation at all. That is not to say I am going into this thinking it would be a simple as sailing into the sunset and living happily ever after.
The first 2 seasons with this boat we were plagued with mechanical problems. The lesson learned was that sh*t can happen really fast on the water and you have to be mentally and financially prepared to deal with it.
The second issue is our health. We both have medical conditions that will require medication the rest of our lives, so I keep a supply both at home and on the boat. Still, the thought of that lifestyle and the reality of living it are 2 very different things. We took what I think, is a big step forward last summer. We decided to take the boat to Kingston and then partially along the Rideau Canal System. This would be the 1st exented trip we had taken with the boat, and the 1st real chance to see how we got along at close quarters for days at a time. We did it low budget, so we planned to anchor out as much as possible. A problem with our inverter and batteries changed that plan, but after 10 days I was in no hurry to go home. The trip budget dictated oherwise. This year we have planned better and we will be out for 3 weeks.

We have, over the years, met a lot of couples who live aboard their boats permanently, just for the boating season, or are weekend and holiday cruisers. Many of them are very happy and obviously enjoyed each other's company and the adventure they shared. Other's though.....talk about screeming matches......

Sorry, I'm rambling on a bit here....the bottom line is that you and your partner have to share the dream. Everyone is different and has certain things in their life that they simply don't want to change. It is not a reflection of how much they love or don't love you.


Admiral Lori, Captain Rick and Boat Cat Shadow
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Old 01-04-2006, 23:06   #21
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SSulivan, I like your attitude. You say that your wife's priorities are on the top of your "to do list" and that you would give up sailing for your wife in a minute.

That's the kind of attitude that makes for a successful marriage. And I bet your wife would follow you to the end of the earth whether on a sailboat or a Harley or walking barefoot.

By the way, I love make up, shopping, new clothes, shiny cars (red sports cars), big houses (with servants), AND simple life on a 26-foot, no engine Folkboat. Yes, I'm irrational, I'm allowed- I'm a woman.

I also agree with your wife, women are like cats. You have to wait until they're in the right mood, but you can encourage the right mood with treats that the cat likes (whether they're practical, make sense to you or last more than a few days). Women are also like horses in the movie Horse Whisperers - you'll get better results if you whisper.

I can almost guarantee that any woman would say yes to sailing if it was a chartered and skippered cruise in the South Pacific for a week and included dinners out to watch the sunset (and your boat in front of you at anchor), dancing in the moonlight, a day or two in a hotel before and after the cruise, a new bathing suit and a cover dress, an afternoon at a spa, and some fresh flowers (picked for her or bought - doesn't matter).

By the way, I can hear most men answer already, "so it's all about money, isn't it." But an SSB radio costs about the same and most men would spend that amount on their boat in a wink. Forget about the SBB and take your wife on a cruise. And it doen't have to be the South Pacific, it could be Florida or the Gulf Islands in summer.

Then, wait until she tells all her friends and family about the wonderful time she had and suggest that you do it again by taking a learn to sail cruise together (in warm climate and with the hotel, dinners, dancing, and flowers).

By the way I just checked your webite Ssulivan - exactly!
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Old 01-04-2006, 23:31   #22
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One more thing. If every time you buy something for the boat you also buy something of equal or greater value for your wife, (and I don't mean foul weather gear) you'd improve your marriage 100%.

Ssulivan, I agree about communication. You sound like you not only listen to your wife, you HEAR her.
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Old 01-04-2006, 23:59   #23
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Rick,
You're very practical and that's good, but romance is not practical. In sailing also, there is the practical aspect and the romantic one.

Affectionate behaviour works, but fresh cut flowers work as well. And why not do both if your woman LOVES fresh cut flowers? Alternate for variety.

Natural body fragrance is wonderful, but when you go out to dinner, she NEEDS a splash of perfume. One that you bought for her and paid WAY too much money for that tiny bottle. Especially if she was in the engine room with you the day before doing an oil change.

Oh, and how is saying, "you are the most beautiful woman in the world for me and I'm crazy about you," (with feeling, by the way) overflattery? Isn't that the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?

You said, "Because of the differences between sexes it is said that if a woman really wants to find out what we are like just have sex with us right away and that will remove all of the time, expense, and emotional energy from the process cutting straight to the end where the true answers lie. Afterwards the real personality is revealed by both."

Sorry, I don't agree with your there. It might be true for a man, but it isn't true for a woman. Sex as a way of getting to know each other quickly? What's the rush? Why not romance to get to know each other slowly? For a woman the romance is much more important than the act of sex. And what's wrong with investing time, money and emotional energy on a woman?
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Old 02-04-2006, 04:20   #24
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The romantic attraction of offerings such as flowers and perfume, probably lies in their extravagant impracticality.
Such gifts, being otherwise useless, are unequivocal messages - they only say “I love you”.
When I give Maggie an expensive set of “Foulies”, I may be thinking “I love you so much, I cannot bear to see you in discomfort” - but Maggie may hear “These’ll ensure you stand your watch in the rain”.
There’s no such ambiguity with flowers ...
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Old 02-04-2006, 04:25   #25
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GordMay- exactly.
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Old 02-04-2006, 14:39   #26
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Seagypsywoman

I STILL love you!
The meaning behind the concept of having sex for the first time with a woman is that after it is over each person can view the other's behaviors without the behaviors being skewed towards OR away from the "sex issue" itself as a motivator/demotivator. This has nothing to do with the concept of using sex just to get to know each other in some immature manner. The concept ONLY works if done in a VERY mature manner straightforward without guile.
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Old 02-04-2006, 16:28   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seagypsywoman
Natural body fragrance is wonderful, but when you go out to dinner, she NEEDS a splash of perfume. One that you bought for her and paid WAY too much money for that tiny bottle.
Check! We have one of those bottles aboard.

Now as to all of your wonderfully kind comments.... I'm speechless. Thank you very much. You are too kind.
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Old 03-04-2006, 01:06   #28
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Yeah Gord, but she is going to feel darn stupid standing watch in the rain wearing the flowers, ain't she. Not to mention being darn cold.

Give up sailing for the wife??? hmmmmm, have to think on that one.
Actually, I was a ski bum when I was younger. I lived to ski. Both snow and water. Anyway's, I met my wife to be and took her to the snow. she hated it. I never went skiing again and strangly, never missed it.Well not untill I went back to the snow about 10years later. Sadly I had such a witdrawel, I abandoned my wife and the youth group we had taken to the snow to go taboganing. No, it wasn't my proudest day. Darn good fun though. That was about 15yrs ago and I have never been back up.
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Old 03-04-2006, 10:34   #29
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Skiing

Wheels, funny you mention the skiing thing. I was the same way. Started snowboarding in 1985 (after skiing since I was 5 yrs old). I did a little competitive riding, but really was just in it for the love... you know what I mean.

My wife doesn't like downhill skiing, so I really haven't been in a while. When we do go to the mountains, we do cross country or nordic skiing. Not quite the rush, but a good workout.
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Old 03-04-2006, 12:11   #30
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Very interesting thread. Giving up sailing/skiing/ pig farming for your wife or husband reminds me of a saying I heard somewhere it goes something like this -- Women marry men "knowing" they can change their husbands -- Men marry women hoping their wives will never change.

When you throw in the family dynamics life really gets complicated.

Before Beth and I got married 11 years and two days ago (an appropriate day in my mind) we had agreed that we would go cruising and if we had kids they would come with us. Her comment was that she didn't want to sell everything to go cruising. I didn't either. That was our pre-nup. It is as good as the paper it wasn't written on.

We are at the point now where I can seriously comptemplate leaving. (please notice my use of pronouns) What are we to do. I'm in the middle of building a house -- in the mean time we are living in a double wide trailer. The kids are in 2nd and 4th grade. Some investments look like they will pay off this year and all of a sudden we have time and money (at the same moment) to cruise. All of a sudden my addiction to sailing is back.

Being very good at saying the wrong thing at the right time I brought up the idea to Beth. She didn't want to hear it. (Is that the communication thing that you guys were talking about.) Being a "little" OCD I started looking for boats online and found this and a couple of other forums.

My daughter is in.(Her name is Marina) When I show her a boat that I like she starts by picking out her bunk. Beth says thats nice dear. My son fights with his sister over what bunk lets her win and says "I don;'t want to go."

I have three first mates and if they don't all agree then I'm in trouble.

Financially I started a plan that I set in place 13 years ago. It looks like it will work. Now comes the harder plan. Getting the whole family to buy in.

I wish I had read this post before. I bought my wife foul weather gear for an anniversary present. (It was diamond earrings last Year). It was my financial goal to buy 1 piece of property a year. I managed that. I didn't even see this part on the horizon. Blind stupidity on my part. I wish there were books to read instead of "No Money Down" maybe a title like "How to Make Your Dream and Your Wives the Same: with no emontional down payment or cost"

The closest thing I've found is the rock soup recipe.

I started cooking last year with a week long charter in the Florida Keys. reviewed the trip and figured ways to make it better. This May we go to Florida again but spend time in a place with more beaches so my son can run around every day.

Then I got the idea for commuter cruising. Buy a $30k boat and sail it to places that are warm and use it as a second , altough moveable, home. It took awhile but Beth has bought into it.

After I finish building the house and then over the course of a year or two we will cruise the boat down the California Coast and on to Mexico. Keep the boat on the hard in Mexico and then come back to it the next winter and cruise some more. If the kids like it and Beth likes it then we can step up and buy a better boat.

I want the kids to learn to scuba, surf, and fish. From there I hope the soup tastes good.

So what have I learned from this thread. Communications is important. But as important is politics. How to convince/persuade someone to see things your way. Rommance is not practical but plays an important part in keeping a relationship together.

Would I give up my dream of cruising for my family. Difficult one to answer honestly. I always liked essay questions rather than true false. I'm glad that the world is not black and white b/c my life has always been lived in the grey.

Charlie

The Irish Definition of Tact: The ability to tell someone to go to hell and make them glad to be on their way.
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