Getting Fiance Interested in Sailing

[JiffyLube]

There's an old expression in the U.S. "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink." Chances are if boating is not at all part of her dream, then you can give up on your dream is you decide to marry her. It could be that her idea of traveling is flying, staying in nice hotels, hanging out around the pool, shopping along the Blvd...not sailing, living on a boat, hanging out at the beach, or shopping at open air markets. Some people's idea of camping is at a hotel.

I think you should reconsider this engagement, but this is your decision and you're the one that's going to have to live with it.

[BlueWaterSail]

Originally Posted by jm21

Financially I'm fine on my own but will have to support her for at least a while ..... She thinks they (boats) are extravagant and I'm living outside of my means .... She sees it (boat expenses) as throwing money away ... I originally took a firm stance on the issue and her being stubborn I think it did more harm than good.

jm, I condensed your post to what I believe is the essence of your problem here. You sound like a stand-up guy doing your best to make this relationship work, while trying to preserve your right to do what you enjoy.

Now, the reaction you get is that you're throwing money away, i.e. not spending it on what's important to her, and when you do take a firm stance over it she gets real angry. The fact that you are financially supporting her is conveniently lost in the heat of the moment.

I would not rush this relationship, give yourself some time to reflect on all of this, the fact that you are a divorce attorney will only help you when you have already gone through years of misery, so actually it's not much help at all.

Regretfully, I must admit that I have never, ever, had another person with whom I had spent a significant amount of time assassinate my character and lie about my personality to the insane degreee as my asian ex did.

Just sharing some real world experience, for what it's worth. Tread carefully.

BWS

[mintyspilot]

Originally Posted by jm21

She's from Taiwan and has an immigrant visa to Australia (where she wants to live). ..... She would have absolutely no interest in living in America if I weren't here.

Originally Posted by jm21

I am actually a divorce attorney so I think about things a bit differently. My boat, car, and house are outside the divorce process

Given your job, maybe you should look at yourself and her as a "case" and be objective. Your affairs are your own business, but it seems to me that someone who tells you how you must live and where you must live and what hobbies you can have if you want to marry her is a timebomb waiting to go off. Look through your case files and see how many such couples wind up in your practice.

The fact that YOU are talking about which of your possessions are outside the divorce process even before you marry does not bode well either. If you do move to Oz the divorce laws are different there and you might find that all your possessions are liable in any divorce.

Your description of her scares me and I'm on the other side of the planet.

Originally Posted by jm21

She doesn't think boats are only for poor people. She thinks they are extravagant and I'm living outside of my means. She thinks the boat is mine and from before marriage so whatever money I get from it is my own, but is absolutely against moorage costs after we get married. She sees it as throwing money away.

What DOES she think money is for? Money is utterly useless if you never intend spending it - it's just rather fancy paper. Would she be happy if you lavished extravagance on her? Would that still be a waste?

[VirtualVagabond]

I see a ship heading for the rocks....
I see a skipper who suspects he is in trouble...
I see him looking ahead, and behind, not sure if he should drop the sail, start the engine, throw out the anchor...

You're in way more trouble than any of us can make you see buddy... I'll light a candle for you...

Just a thought... when two people get together BOTH their lives should be enriched and both should have a sense of their good fortune to have their partner. If this isn't the case, eventually the bigger 'giver' feels resentment and it's all over. There can only be one 'chief', albeit a considerate one... make sure she knows it's you.

[boatman61]

Sounds to me like when you got engaged to this woman you laid your nuts in her hand.... when you get married you'll have put your nuts in a vice and all you'll be able to do is scream....
Send her shopping and sail before she gets back... the sex aint worth the sacrifice...

[jm21]

I don't believe I have ever seen a marriage end because of having too few toys/hobbies. Seen plenty of marriages end because of too many/too expensive toys/hobbies. Also where one or both spouses can't control their spending or they spend a very large amount of money on some activity/hobby/category of items (e.g. shoes/clothes/cars/motorcycles), especially if the other spouse is not interested.

Why save money? Early retirement. If we hit $400k or so we'd be gone to SE Asia (Thailand or Vietnam probably).

This is the only real request she's made as far as changing myself goes. OK, she thinks I should eat less steak and more vegis but that's about it. She would like to live in AUS but knows it's not practical to move there for the foreseeable future. By the time we could move her visa would probably be expired. So to move here she's probably giving up her chance to immigrate to AUS (which she spent lots of time and many thousands of dollars getting) to come to a place she doesn't want to live. That's a bit of a sacrifice on her part.

Objectively looking at the cost of keeping my current boat and crunching some numbers, realistically it will cost on average $125-300 per night I use my current boat in terms of moorage and maintenance (depending on how often I end up using the boat and how unlucky I get on maintenance). For a trailer sailor it would be around $20-80 per night. At this point in my life, given the limited time I use the boat, it's extremely hard to justify the expense of keeping the current boat. So, her request seems very reasonable to me. The only real objection I can see is based on principle/stubbornness. Actually after crunching the numbers I'd probably sell it without her asking. Didn't realize it was costing so much. Last year I spent about $400 per night. Boating is fun, but not that fun. And a trailerable boat is not that much worse.

Buying a slip is an idea but I think there is a "slip bubble" in this part of the country. The option to buy only recently became available here and the slips are ridiculously over-priced. My parents rent a slip from a guy who owns it and the moorage doesn't even cover the interest on the loan. If I remember correctly the slip was almost as expensive as my house. And now the marina got sued for a few million for blocking off a creek that salmon use and the slip owners will have to pay for it. Just not worth it in this area, imho.

[atoll]

at $400 a night i can see her point,no matter what culture she comes from,at those rates you should be looking at buying your own dock as an investment.....

[Wand]

jm21, mate, you're a lawyer. Rule no. 1 is to never let the facts get in the way of a good argument. Rule no. 2 is that numbercrunching is only for the prosecution.

Anyway, it seems the boating nuts on this forum have at least helped you sort out your priorities in a funny sort of way. Allabest...

[JiffyLube]

I wouldn't want to pay $400 a night either, so I suggest you use the boat more to get the cost down How come you went so far a field to find a lady to marry?

[jm21]

Using the boat a lot more would be a viable option. But even then I'm not sure I have enough time off work to make it worthwhile.

We met online a long time ago. She had read an article I had written and on a whim contacted me. She liked me but I didn't think it was feasible to have such a long distance relationship given that I was in graduate school and had no money. I dated a few girls where I lived at the time and she got pissed off and wouldn't talk with me for a while.

We got in touch late 2009 and were both burned out at work, so we decided to take a vacation together and met up in February 2010 in Thailand (during the Chinese new year holiday in Taiwan). From there I visited Taiwan twice. She had her tourist visa to the US denied because she had an American boyfriend and we decided to get engaged so she could actually come here.

The trailer-sailer options seems the best route for now...

[mintyspilot]

Originally Posted by jm21

Objectively looking at the cost of keeping my current boat and crunching some numbers, realistically it will cost on average $125-300 per night ...... Last year I spent about $400 per night. Boating is fun, but not that fun. And a trailerable boat is not that much worse.

$400 per night? $12,000 per month? We're the heck are you parking this boat.

[aegean adrift]

How long would it take for her to get her Oz paperwork finalised?

[jm21]

$400 per night of use. E.g. if you spend $4,000 per year and take it out for 10 nights/year. Or $8,000 per year and take it out 20 nights. I used almost all my vacation time last year traveling to other countries but had to replace a motor and installed a new head/holding tank. Not a good year.

If I remember correctly she has to reside for a continuous 2 years in Oz before getting permanent residency.

[aegean adrift]

And how many years of perm residency before getting passport?

[jm21]

I think she gets an Oz passport after 2 years. Don't really know what good it would do her. As a Taiwanese citizen she is visa exempt to all EU countries and Canada here pretty soon I think. But even Canadians with American boyfriends/girlfriends can get refused entry at the port of entry. Meeting up in Vancouver, BC is no problem, but Seattle is pretty much out of the question. They think you are using a tourist visa to get around the ridiculously long waiting periods for a fiance or spousal visa.