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Old 27-11-2012, 11:02   #76
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Re: Four People and a Sailboat. The Quest.

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Originally Posted by Greenhand View Post
In three days? That would be impressive!
Stranger things have happened and "impressive" would not be the word I would use lol. I saw someone referring to "their first sail"??
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Old 27-11-2012, 12:10   #77
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I agree with everything you just said. But these people are adults and have made their intentions clear, like with a grown child you voice your concerns and then back off and support the new endeavor.

I am not advising that we as a forum support a noob to buy an untested boat with untested crew and go off into the sunset, I am suggesting that we have all made our point about the difficulties invovled in buying, maintaining and sailing a large boat for a family of sailing novices so now lets stop nagging and spend more time advising...
They are also taking two kids as well, this isn't simply about supporting an adult decision, no matter how ill informed. The sea kills the unprepared
The vast majority of people here are not saying dont do it. They are saying prepare , build some knowledge, dip the toe. Then you'll know what to expect. This is sane sensible advice.

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Old 27-11-2012, 13:50   #78
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Re: Four People and a Sailboat. The Quest.

Yep. To each their own. The ocean is a vast place. Let them sail.

Let's not make things over-regulated in an area where most variables are unknown.

Cheers,
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Old 27-11-2012, 14:59   #79
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Re: Four People and a Sailboat. The Quest.

Just to emphasis points that have already been made:-

A 1992 boat is 20 years old. It's going to be coming up for some major maintenance/upgrades/fixing. I seem to recall the figure of $20k, but a realistic budget would be 3 or more times that, and the time involved may range from 3 months to 5 years. Even if it comes back with a perfect survey almost every system may start to fail once full time cruising starts. It's why cruising is sometime described as "fixing boats in exotic locations".

I see that to OP has an older "motor home" so he'll have an idea of whats involved. As a guesstimate his motor home would have roughly the same interior space as a 42' sailboat so doubling to the next size up and doubling again 'cause it's a boat and we have maintenance increasing by a factor of 4.

It's very difficult to get an intuitive grasp of the work involved with keeping a big boat unless you've done it already. Then it's too late!

The other two aspects of the OP's requirement are a heavy displacement boat with a draft of less than 6'. The '92 Vauquiez 49 given as an example has a weight of 32,000lb and a draft of 6', though in real life it could be greater than that. A heavy boat is going to have a deep draft.

Thinking about his requirements the only one that is immutable is that he needs a boat for a family of four.

Thinking about some recommendations if I were in his place I'd look at ex charter boats in the Caribbean. It's where he wants to head, it would save his first voyage from being along what's sometimes called the "thorny path", and the ex charter boats are much newer and cheaper. I seem to recall only one instance of an ex charter buyer being less than happy so mostly they don't look too bad. Still need a survey.

So my picks are (ex charter):-
1) Lagoon 38 S2 - not a multi owner myself but for the Caribbean these look to be almost perfect. A Lagoon 410 would be better for the Pacific, but the 38 should do fine.
2) Beneteau Oceanis 40. There are 2008 boats coming out of charter now and these could just about fit in his budget and the draft is realistic.
3) Beneteau Oceanis 323. All the good ones are probably gone, but there could be a few left.
4) Beneteau Oceanis 473. To my mind the modern classic cruising yacht. Draft is an issue, but in reality that means a bigger more powerful dinghy on davits and and oversize anchors with all chain.

For gaining experience I can not imaging anything better than the BVI's/USVI's. He can stay on his boat and take short sails while sorting out the myriad of problems that even a late model boat in good condition will have.
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Old 29-11-2012, 12:41   #80
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Re: Four People and a Sailboat. The Quest.

My bad. I meant the Beneteau 423. The 323 would be too small.
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Old 30-11-2012, 10:45   #81
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Re: Four People and a Sailboat. The Quest.

Guys, we took SOME of your advise, we are starting a sailing school in a week in St Pete Florida (municipal Marina) on 18 feet keel boats! It costs 350$ per family (two adults) unlimited sailing for one full year + 75$ per person for one weekend (2 days) of instructions.

Also, there is a 4-days boat show going on right here right now. We went to 5 seminars yesterday (marine plumbing, air conditionning,Dealing with emergencies on boardand, Is Sailing for You, and From novice to medalist- we met Jen France, the silver medalist from the para-olympics 2012). We are going to more tomorrow. We spoke to tons of people, we checked tons of stuff for the boats.

We met some folks and after we learn the basics at the school we will sign up for crewing and helping dellivering larger boats.

We haven't baught a boat yet, we are still looking around.

We have been reading and researching sailing 6 years now, so most of the stuff you are talking about here are not so new to us, but thanks anyway!
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Old 30-11-2012, 10:56   #82
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Sounds like you are going to have a great time. Sometimes the shark tank can be a bit harsh, hope you keep us up to date with your adventures!
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Old 30-11-2012, 11:28   #83
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Re: Four People and a Sailboat. The Quest.

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Originally Posted by foolishsailor View Post
Sounds like you are going to have a great time. Sometimes the shark tank can be a bit harsh, hope you keep us up to date with your adventures!
It's called "trial by fire" .

Hi Ivo, Mira, Viktor and Maya
Welcome to CF and the sailing community. You will find endless help and support from the cruisers you meet once you start sailing. Have the time of your lives on this new adventure!

A several people have mentioned, make sure you leave a chunk of funds in reserve for repairs and maintenance. Unless the boat you buy has had very frequent use recently, it is very likely many things will breakdown in the early days of ownership.

Best wishes.
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Old 30-11-2012, 12:32   #84
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Re: Four People and a Sailboat. The Quest.

It sounds like you are on the right track.


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Old 30-11-2012, 17:48   #85
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Re: Four People and a Sailboat. The Quest.

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Originally Posted by foolishsailor View Post
Sounds like you are going to have a great time. Sometimes the shark tank can be a bit harsh, hope you keep us up to date with your adventures!
SNAFU , my wife reads the forum but won't post. Judgemental posts about them upchucking on an inlet approach with a jammed furler drum... Plenty of people, do plenty of cruising and never have to set keel in an ocean. Think he even made a point about taking it slow.

Welcome to the forum thelifenomadik
We will be transitioning to full time life aboard our boat this summer and will head south later in the year.
One thing about a boat is, for us, we never feel cramped. With the wide open view always a hatch away!!
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Old 30-11-2012, 18:30   #86
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Re: Four People and a Sailboat. The Quest.

Love your blog!

Yes, the Ocean can be unforgiving but so can the open road behind the wheel of a tractor trailer I can imagine. So cool that you both are Tractor Trailer drivers and you were able to home school your children and take them too! I owe my life to a very good Tractor Trailer that anticipated a possible deadly accident unfolding that would have left the car I was riding in completely totaled I am sure...he or she moved over just half a lane allowing us just the amount of space we needed to get by a dead stopped car in the left lane that otherwise we would have slammed into the back of a car going 75 m.p.h. because they were dead stopped in the far left lane and we couldn't see around the SUV in front of us that changed lanes...no shoulder and a tractor trailer beside us...that was the day I decided definitely it was time to go sailboat cruising! Wished I could have met that driver so I could give him/her a hug!

Good luck with your boat search. We have a Wauquiez Pretorien and we love her...don't know if the 47 would be a good match for your needs or not but they are certainly very soundly built boats.

Can't wait to watch the latest chapter in your lives unfold!
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Old 30-11-2012, 18:33   #87
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Re: Four People and a Sailboat. The Quest.

We also had a Westerly Fulmar - Westerlys are great boats too and they make those in the 40 foot range...might want to check them out if you can find any on the market right now...
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Old 30-11-2012, 18:39   #88
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Re: Four People and a Sailboat. The Quest.

Hey, who is that great looking woman above...

Some things to consider.
1. Boat costs, slips, maintenance, etc, go up exponentially with increases in boat size. I think Beth Leornard (get her book Voyager's Handbook) says 10feet will increase the costs 50%?
2. In line with #1, do not underestimate the costs of maintaining a safe boat. a 47 foot boat like the Wauquiez 47 could easily cost you 10-20k a year to maintain. A frend had a 50 foot boat he built himself, and did 99% of the work himself, and he still said it cost him $10k a year to maintain.
3. A split rig boat with the rig in good shape might be a better choice. The W 47 has a powerful rig, big stick, lots of stresses etc. Perhaps a ketch?
4. Try really, really hard to find a smaller boat that meets your minimum needs. I can tell you that what space you think you need, as land dwellers, is skewed. It was for me, and everyone else I know that made the transition from home to boat.
5. I love the Wauquiez Centurions. A 42 might be a more realistic $$$ boat for you folks, though.

Chris
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Old 30-11-2012, 21:27   #89
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Re: Four People and a Sailboat. The Quest.

Glad to hear that you are taking steps to educate yourself before sailing. Best of luck to you and your sailing education. I'll have to start reading your blog to see how things are going.
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Old 30-11-2012, 22:11   #90
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Re: Four People and a Sailboat. The Quest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thomm225 View Post
Sure you can, tell them what all those red and green signs are for out there in the water..............with numbers on them.
Nope the "instructor can do that"
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