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Old 25-11-2012, 13:55   #31
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Re: Four People and a Sailboat. The Quest.

'45+ can be a handful for an inexperienced crew of two. Remember only one will be available for all sailing as the other one will be taking care of the kids. So to say we are talking of single handing a pretty classic layout (which layouts were normally adjusted for full crews).

My advice: take it easy, do not hurry, look for an 'easy' (to sail, manage and maintain) boat. And make sure this is adventure for all crew, not just an escape for the driving ones.

BTW You will not find freedom nor happiness out there. These things either you have them or you do not. Kids tend to have them naturally, adults tend to chase them only.

Alas, the pursuit itself may be well worth it. Dream big, sail carefully.

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Old 25-11-2012, 14:43   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duanecatman
Shear insanity as are all the posts offering encouragement to these totally unrealistic, unprepared Daydreamers; no experience, no knowledge, limited funds, no real plans [children's long term educational, destinations etc etc].
The best part is that they will, in all likelihood, end up on some other Nation's welfare rolls other than Canada's.
What a crock and an entire post that is pure assumption.

180k for a boat is lomited funds?

Childrens education? Really? Do you actually know any cruiser children?

Welfare? Seriously? They bought a caravan and are living out of it and still have a 180k budget for a boat.

No offense but maybe take a breath before hitting the send button.
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Old 25-11-2012, 15:12   #33
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Re: Four People and a Sailboat. The Quest.

I stead of the vitriol...

How does the original poster come up with a precise budget like 180,000? And the two boats, waiquiz 49 and a Stevens 47. Two arguably very poor boats for this type of new to sailing transition.

I don't mind the size at all, 45 to 50 feet is good.
But I would be looking a production boats hat are still being produced and buying one up t ten years old.

The waiquiz 49 is the old series of the company that went bust, before bought by Beneteau and completely changed. Wasn't it?

I would spend $5,000 of the budget and go charter a boat in the BVIs and then negotiate to buy it or similar at the end.

Then you will get a boat that will fit your family, is easy to sail, and won't fall apart.

Sailing is learnable.... Even the Vikings could do it! It's not that hard.


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Old 25-11-2012, 15:38   #34
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It would seem that they are looking for the sailboat equivalent to their current motorhome, which they see as an (anti) status symbol. Part of this is staying away from their idea of production boats.

Reading through the blog, they strike me as the types that are going to do this, naysaying will merely confirm that they are going against the grain.
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Old 25-11-2012, 17:40   #35
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Re: Four People and a Sailboat. The Quest.

I want to spend 180k on something I know nothing about!

Do I hear the sound of helicopters?

How about the OP spends 10k on sailing lessons and a few charters for his entire family , then $170k on the boat?
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Old 25-11-2012, 17:48   #36
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Re: Four People and a Sailboat. The Quest.

Overwhelmed.....

Thank you all for your posts, even the harsh ones. Every opinion and critique is greatly appreciated!

We must definitely look naive, even stupid to some/most of you, experienced sailors, who have seen so many dreams go down the streams, but it is now too late to dissuader us, it's on! Maybe we will fail badly, who knows, but such is life, you choose a direction and try to get there. (We came to Canada as refugees 12 years ago, crossing first the Mexican-American border swimming at night in Rio Grande with our then 3-year-old son in a garbage bag; got arrested; released; went to Canada with NO money at all, they even lost our two back packs with all our possessions in the GreyHound bus, so we truly had NOTHING, not even papers when we first got in the "first-world" until we passed our hearing and were granted refugee protection. (for more on this, read The Border article in our blog). But we had the ambition to make it, whatever it means, for our kid's sake; we worked hard, which I am not proud of, as I don't think people should spend there lives working as slaves, but this is another topic. The point is, we have been through some **** and we made it, against all odds. We are NOT your average naive dreamer. Still, I agree that we might not be so "lucky" this time.)

We love the idea of starting small and slow, chartering boats and all that, but we are very tight on our budget and if we spend money for chartering it will affect the purchase of the boat. We are not working any more, have no income, and so whatever we spend will mean less money for the boat. Still, we will consider this advise and look into it. But we would love to get some experience as part of a crew or sailing with friends. We were looking forward to doing so, and any advise how and where is best to do it (where to find such friends?) will help enormously.

We have been thinking/planning/reading books and forums for 6 years now, so it is not such an impulsive thing; we are aware of the dangers and difficulties. And we are still willing to do it, take the risks and the consequences. Unfortunately, starting small is not an option at this point, although i agree is the best way, the proper way and so on...

Thank you all who are actually suggesting a boat model and commenting on the ones we have been looking at.

Ketch is out of consideration. We will only consider a single mast, mono hull, bluewater, max 6 draft, fin keel, keel-step mast, 3-cabin layout is best, but two could work as well. We are planning to cruise extensively (if we don't fail, that is), live aboard and actually sail.

Someone mentioned that the Wauquiez 47 is not the greatest idea? That it is a retired model of Beneteau? Please, tell us more about this boat, as it is the one we favour so far.

Thanks again to all!
We do appreciate your comments, critiques, encouragement, discouragement, sarcasm, all in good faith and out of much respected experience, I'm sure. Keep them coming!

p.s.
Seasickness dos not scary us much.
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Old 25-11-2012, 17:54   #37
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Re: Four People and a Sailboat. The Quest.

More power to you my friend. Mine is "If not now, then when?"
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Old 25-11-2012, 18:07   #38
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Re: Four People and a Sailboat. The Quest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenhand View Post
Reading through the blog, they strike me as the types that are going to do this, naysaying will merely confirm that they are going against the grain.


This is an old hat thread theme that seems to find new life with a new OP's first post. Everyone of them expect to see only blue skies and want it NOW, RIGHT NOW! Some either have next to zero bucks, others indicate they want to squander their life's savings as they plan to live on what they believe to be sea provided nourishment and let nature take its course. But nature is not kind. They ask for advise when what is really wanted is encouragement for their dreams.

Yes dreams are free, harmless and they are getting more frequent. But to actually purchase anything that floats with zero experience sailing/boating along with elementary classes other than dreams is a recipe for disaster. It is time to get real rather than encourage these foolish day dreamers.

Foggy
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Old 25-11-2012, 18:09   #39
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Re: Four People and a Sailboat. The Quest.

Thank you for appreciating our sarcasm. Hopefully my following sarcasm will keep you alive :-D

You say you are aware of the dangers. Of course you and your kids are aware of the dangers of a shackle on flogging clew. Of course you know about hatch diving. Of course you are aware of the dangers and anchor rode creates for your feet. You certaninly know the dangers of a vessel with a constant bearing compared to one with a changing bearing. Your kids know the dangers of grasping a sheet on the load side of the genoa winch. You know how to do a henderson turn and what its for.

I know that you understand deviation and variation and the dangers of getting it wrong. You certainly know the dangers of saiilng by the lee.

End of the sarcastic part. :-D

You are here to hear the words of experienced sailors. That we do know. "listen to them". Even if you buy a small boat first and spend a few months honing the skills your learn at the sailing and seaman ship course.

yes you can also crew. Find the nearest yachtclub and get onto the crew register. Sail and "race" as many different sorts of boats as you can. Racing will advance your skills much more than booze cruising. Crewing a boat wont teach you to skipper one. But it will advance your skills.

You have done well, to have lost it all and start again. But losing it all on a greyhound bus is a lot different to losing it all 400 miles off shore. 400 miles off shore you could just be dead. None of us want that no matter how harsh we may put it.
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Old 25-11-2012, 18:30   #40
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Re: Four People and a Sailboat. The Quest.

Oz, you are intriguing me! What's a hatch diving, I can't wait to try it!

Seriously, you are right, we need experience before heading 400 miles, we knew that! The simple idea was: get a boat, stay in safe near-shore water, make friends on the near-by boats, and learn to sail for as long as it takes, then hit the Panama Canal and keep going west.

Taking courses and lessons ASA 101, 103, 105 all those, we've checked them, we will do that, I promise to you! We have time to do it before or after we find the boat, we are not pressed for time. I know that theory is nothing compared to practise, but we have red number of books already and it is something, isn't it? Plus, we are all about alternative ways, and chartering seams too strait forward rich-folks kind of thing. But we WILL check into it, also promise.

Best option and idea so far- sign up for crewing. We will do this ASAP. Where, which yacht club in which city will take one of us, any suggestions? We are now heading towards St Pete, FL to check out two Tayanas and one Tatoosh, and from there we can go wherever we want to, we decide on a day-by-day basis.

lovely sarcasm! Don't stop now!
cheers!
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Old 25-11-2012, 18:46   #41
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Re: Four People and a Sailboat. The Quest.

Welcome to the forum thelifenomadik, I wish you well on your quest. I know not of this henderson turn that ozskipper speaks of, perhaps he will enlighten us. You will find there are many who will want to help you and a few who will try to kick you, I am amazed at the responses that you have drawn already, I expect you are used to this. Keep your eyes and hearts open and you will do well.
Namaste
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Old 25-11-2012, 19:22   #42
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Re: Four People and a Sailboat. The Quest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thelifenomadik;
We will only consider a single mast, mono hull, bluewater, max 6 draft, fin keel, keel-step mast, 3-cabin layout is best, but two could work as well. We are planning to cruise extensively (if we don't fail, that is), live aboard and actually sail.

h.
Hang on!
That's what someone else has said is important.
If you don't know boats not many of those things can be gauged.

We have long arguments here all day about fin keel, or no fin keel... Keel stepped, or deck stepped (mine is deck stepped and I've circumnavigated).... And Bluewater. What do you mean! The word Bluewater has two opposing connotations... Some say it means old, heavy and slow, some say it means seamanly, seakindly and slow. And draft? Ummmmm many 47 foot boats want more than 6 foot draft. We're not talking about a thirty footer...

So,though its laudable to see a crown and to pluck it down, you may need to get some real time on boats so you know what advice to believe.
Of course if you were saying the type of boat I would recommend then I would say how smart you are and go full steam ahead...


How do you know you aren't buying Captain Ron's trade in?

The cost to have each boat inspected is about $1,000 and you don't get to do that till AFTER you have paid the deposit. And if the inspection says its a lemon you don't get your money back, you just get some dollars taken off the sale price. So there's $19,000 you could loose instantly.
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Old 25-11-2012, 19:41   #43
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Re: Four People and a Sailboat. The Quest.

captain58sailin, actually i was surprised that thanks to the books we red (the first one, Sailing for Dummies out of all those scary stuff that Oz talks about, we DO know about the dangers of sailing by the lee and the dangers of grasping a sheet on the load side of the genoa winch; 2 out of... many.

But we don't get offended, as it is true, we are newbies without experience doing the "wrong" thing..Or the right thing the wrong way. Story of our life... I don't think anyone is trying to kick us; they are probably (mis)judging us based on the little information they have for us. And they might be right! Let's find out!

I was just trying to get some help about a boat model...But it is OK to discuss our inexperience, because it actually helps us to re-evaluate things, maybe even "Save our lives" because criticism, as a mild storm, can sober you up and bring you back to reality. It is not pleasant, but it is most welcome and appreciated. We learn not only from mistakes, but from other's mistakes and experience as well. We will not block our ears and eyes to harsh words. Honesty is better than politeness.
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Old 25-11-2012, 19:46   #44
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Re: Four People and a Sailboat. The Quest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thelifenomadik View Post
Oz, you are intriguing me! What's a hatch diving, I can't wait to try it!

Seriously, you are right, we need experience before heading 400 miles, we knew that! The simple idea was: get a boat, stay in safe near-shore water, make friends on the near-by boats, and learn to sail for as long as it takes, then hit the Panama Canal and keep going west.

Taking courses and lessons ASA 101, 103, 105 all those, we've checked them, we will do that, I promise to you! We have time to do it before or after we find the boat, we are not pressed for time. I know that theory is nothing compared to practise, but we have red number of books already and it is something, isn't it? Plus, we are all about alternative ways, and chartering seams too strait forward rich-folks kind of thing. But we WILL check into it, also promise.

Best option and idea so far- sign up for crewing. We will do this ASAP. Where, which yacht club in which city will take one of us, any suggestions? We are now heading towards St Pete, FL to check out two Tayanas and one Tatoosh, and from there we can go wherever we want to, we decide on a day-by-day basis.

lovely sarcasm! Don't stop now!
cheers!
You get five gold stars for taking the courses. :-D

I dont know FL and subsequently dont know the marinas or yacht clubs. I suggest google will help out.

You will love hatch diving. Its awesome :-D It can even involve a high speed ride to a hospital.. wooohooo..( special sarcasm lol)
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Old 25-11-2012, 19:54   #45
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Re: Four People and a Sailboat. The Quest.

You guys really are serious about buying a boat right away! I hope you get Don Casey's book, Inspecting the Aging Sailboat and bring it with you when you look over boats.
The problem though is that the selling broker or owner will usually talk your ear off when you're trying to concentrate on what you're inspecting. Make sure you look at a lot of boats, take notes, and then find out the issues each boat has (at least the ones you're interested in). It would probably be a good idea to find someone experienced to come along with you and have him or her point out problem areas. Maybe your broker already does this for you, hopefully.
It would also be a good idea to pick up Nigel Calder's book on repairing mechanical and electrical systems. You're likely to eventually need it, if you intend on DIY.
Also, look online at the "mahina list" for ideas. Another sailing forum online has expanded the "bluewater boat list", so look at that too.
Good luck and happy sailing to you!
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