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Old 12-01-2014, 13:56   #1
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Feel of safety, feel of comfort

Dear Ladies!

I am presently involved in design process of a new (monohull) boat, and this is a reason I’m looking Your kind advice.
We all do like to sail on boats we feel ourselves safe and comfortable on board.
But the “feel of safety” and “feel of comfort” are quite elusive matters.
When we talk about safety we think in categories of like angle of vanishing stability, righting arm, righting moment, watertight bulkheads, sound construction, safety factors in all engineering and so on, so on. But we can not feel these things. So feeling of safety is something different…
When talking of comfort we think in categories of things to have. But we of course can not feel the washer, the dryer, and other stuff.
So… it is important for me to know, what are the factors determining “the feel of safety” and the “feel of comfort” – especially from woman point of view.
Can You be so kind and share with me Your impressions?
I will be very grateful for this.
Dear Gentlemen – please be so nice and do not tell my about Your guesses regarding Ladies feelings.
Of course – if Your female sailing partner is not a member to this forum and You will be so kind to rely her views, it will be appreciated.
Just saying I’m here to source female experiences and analysis of the problem. It is of great importance to me.
Thank You in advance to all of You, who shall be kind enough to share with me Your reflections.

Best regards

Tomasz

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Old 12-01-2014, 14:11   #2
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Re: Feel of safety, feel of comfort

I would, but the premise is sexist.
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Old 12-01-2014, 14:29   #3
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Re: Feel of safety, feel of comfort

I don't understand why you think safety and comfort are different between men and women. I'm positive my wife likes the same things I do as far as the two are concerned.

So what are you really trying to find out?
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Old 12-01-2014, 14:32   #4
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Re: Feel of safety, feel of comfort

we've had this out in another thread its clearly not about washing machines


dave
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Old 12-01-2014, 14:39   #5
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Re: Feel of safety, feel of comfort

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Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
I don't understand why you think safety and comfort are different between men and women. I'm positive my wife likes the same things I do as far as the two are concerned.

So what are you really trying to find out?
It is a different way of looking into the things.
Men are prone to generalisation. Ladies have often much better and deeper analytical attitude.
For many years car producers are using all-female pools to determine the comfort factors for new products. And I do not think it is anyway sexist attitude.
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Old 12-01-2014, 15:01   #6
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While thresholds of 'uncomfortableness' for humans are reasonably well quantified through vibration (velocity, acceleration and jerk) by organisations like NASA applying them to designing something that is comfortable is problematic. Why?

On a boat you have a lot of random broadband vibration superimposed on any smooth wave action. This means you need to model with statistical input data not simplified smooth mathematically clean periodic inputs. Validation and collection if this data is always challenging.

You also have the challenge of comfort being very subjective. What one person considers comfortable another considers objectionable. The response of the head and torso for different people have quite different natural frequencies.

Design to be midrange of thresholds and tune mass and motion for comfort. Safety
I'll leave for another discussion.
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Old 12-01-2014, 15:16   #7
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Re: Feel of safety, feel of comfort

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For many years car producers are using all-female pools to determine the comfort factors for new products. And I do not think it is anyway sexist attitude.
thats cause there is a lot of women drivers, the same is not through for sailing.
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Old 12-01-2014, 15:49   #8
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Re: Feel of safety, feel of comfort

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thats cause there is a lot of women drivers, the same is not through for sailing.
Still there are a lot of women involved in sailing.
Understand that in Your opinion their needs are of lesser value, and there is not worth to address them, just because for the moment there is more male than female skippers.
I personally dare to differ with You regarding this
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Old 12-01-2014, 15:52   #9
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Re: Feel of safety, feel of comfort

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Still there are a lot of women involved in sailing.
Understand that in Your opinion their needs are of lesser value, and there is not worth to address them, just because for the moment there is more male than female skippers.
I personally dare to differ with You regarding this
statistics in the UK , show that approx only 10% of sailors are women that are active sailors, and of this nearly all of these are dinghy sailors.

Its not that their needs are of a lesser value. Their needs are exactly the same as male sailors. Why do you think they are different?

dave
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Old 12-01-2014, 16:14   #10
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Re: Feel of safety, feel of comfort

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
. Why do you think they are different?

dave
I do not think They are different.
I think that Their reception of some things can be different.
For me and You plum is the fruit, at least as a first association.
But for the woman it can be (and often is, at least for many I know) a colour, at least as a first association. It can be a little different in English, but I think You can easily understand what I mean.
I'm looking for the factors being first associations with safety and comfort for women - simple thing
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Old 12-01-2014, 16:18   #11
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Re: Feel of safety, feel of comfort

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
statistics in the UK , show that approx only 10% of sailors are women that are active sailors, and of this nearly all of these are dinghy sailors.
dave
Just for curiosity - we do here have much higher percentage of women in actively sailing community, and lower for the dinghies.
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Old 12-01-2014, 16:22   #12
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Re: Feel of safety, feel of comfort

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Originally Posted by DoubleWhisky View Post
When we talk about safety we think in categories of like angle of vanishing stability, righting arm, righting moment, watertight bulkheads, sound construction, safety factors in all engineering and so on, so on. But we can not feel these things. So feeling of safety is something different…
When talking of comfort we think in categories of things to have. But we of course can not feel the washer, the dryer, and other stuff.
When I wrote "we" I thought "we, men".
We are mainly thinking in categories of specifications or of the list of useful items.

I remember a thread, where a lot of guys advised a long lists of appliances to keep women happy....
And I do not believe it is the case
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Old 12-01-2014, 16:41   #13
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Re: Feel of safety, feel of comfort

Frankly, Tomascz,

Women who really like to sail, and like living on boats are an extremely small percentage of the total population of women. So feedback from those of us who are long term cruisers will not make it possible for you to design a monohull where just any woman would feel safe.

For me, safety is part of comfort. Comfort, for instance, with the new boat, came from experiencing sailing it. When its strip plank WRC, glass & epoxied in and out construction showed itself not to be thin and fragile like an eggshell, I became more comfortable with it. Comfort also comes from knowledge of strong construction, type of rigging wire used, on and on, which I don't think "women in general" as opposed to particular women know very much about.

Comfort, for me, also equates with a firm comfortable berth to sleep in, confined by a lee cloth in heavy weather; a safe galley (butt belt if necessary) with a good stove with an oven [I'm the baker aboard]; easy to use nav station; adequate storage. Follow that with, I like having a hot water shower belowdecks. I heat washing up water on the stove, but I think most women would prefer to have hot water in both the head and the galley.

Honestly, I think you should find the woman first, then modify your boat design with her input. Women are great individualists, and what means comfort for one may be less or unimportant to another. Thinking about this has made me wonder whether the folks who design boats for the charter trade solicit input from women, and the crop of Hunter, Bavaria, Hansa, Beneteau, to name a few, boats already reflect this input. Go look at them for what makes a good impression on "women". Look at catamarans, too.

But really, my advice to you is to design what YOU think is safe and comfortable. You may or may not find a sailing partner. At least, my way, you'd have what you like and think necessary. And if you already have a sailing partner, ask 'em.

Ann
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Old 12-01-2014, 17:03   #14
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Re: Feel of safety, feel of comfort

Thank You Ann

When building my own boat I did exactly what You are saying. The boat is built around my wife's wishes and needs.
But now I'm involved in the design proces of boat intended for production (small scale), so it is not possible to design around one particular person
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Old 12-01-2014, 17:22   #15
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Re: Feel of safety, feel of comfort

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Dear Gentlemen – please be so nice and do not tell my about Your guesses regarding Ladies feelings.
Gentlemen on this forum?
More like a pack of African Hunting Dogs waiting for someone to ask them not to comment just so they can attack the jugular or anywhere more painful.

Goodluck!
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