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Old 14-01-2014, 12:39   #61
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Re: Feel of safety, feel of comfort

Good day, everyone,

Holding tanks should be fitted above the water line so that gravity drain is possible when pumpout fails; also, for cleansing purposes.

Ann
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Old 14-01-2014, 12:51   #62
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Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
Good day, everyone,

Holding tanks should be fitted above the water line so that gravity drain is possible when pumpout fails; also, for cleansing purposes.

Ann
Personally I would not agree, they tend to be too small when above the waterline.

A good decent tank with cleaning access flush outs and a macerating electric underwater pump out facility

Dave
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Old 14-01-2014, 13:28   #63
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Re: Feel of safety, feel of comfort

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Originally Posted by neilpride View Post
Things to avoid ? electric toilets!! or worst , vacum flush toilets!!
Hmmmm.....
Somehow I can not imagine the person writing cheque for several millions dollars or euros for the boat equipped with manually operated toilets.
May be some rich, liberal enviromentalist???
But no, too big generator on this boat for an enviromentalist
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Old 14-01-2014, 13:35   #64
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Re: Feel of safety, feel of comfort

"Feel of comfort" we can all understand. That is how we describe something purely visceral. We can measure temperature, humidity, and firmness, but in the end it comes down to the sum of these; how does it feel?

But "feel of safety" is trickier. In the 60s I felt safe in the big comfy family car, with no seatbelt. I've helped clean up climbers that felt safe with the latest gear they did not know how to use. Recently, I've tested safety equipment for boats that felt safe and looked safe, but was actually quite deadly. I've been on many boats that felt big and safe in harbor, but lacked the most basic handholds for use at sea, had substandard fuel systems installations, and were utterly unmanageable if any power-assist system broke.

Comfort is a feeling thing. Safety is a numbers thing. "Feeling of safety" is part of "feeling of comfort," but it often has no actual relationship to actual safety.

Just so you know the difference. Someone may not.
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Old 14-01-2014, 14:45   #65
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Re: Feel of safety, feel of comfort

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Originally Posted by DoubleWhisky View Post
Hmmmm.....
Somehow I can not imagine the person writing cheque for several millions dollars or euros for the boat equipped with manually operated toilets.
May be some rich, liberal enviromentalist???
But no, too big generator on this boat for an enviromentalist

Haaa Good one, but you say without depend of engineers onboard, one of the best bussines here in the season is to fix toilets in the megabucks !!! lol there is a 90 plus size boat with all the vacum things doing weird , the only working toilet in the owner cabin with 5 crew onboard , i understand manual toilets dont have place in this boats, but for the crew ???????
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Old 14-01-2014, 15:05   #66
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Re: Feel of safety, feel of comfort

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Comfort is a feeling thing. Safety is a numbers thing. "Feeling of safety" is part of "feeling of comfort," but it often has no actual relationship to actual safety.
You are right of course.
I was asking the question regarding feeling of safety as a part of psychical comfort for the less experienced and less sailing-devoted members of owners party. Statistically the most important such a person is owner's wife.

Real safety is other thing. I thought I underlined it in my first post - may be not clearly enough.
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Old 14-01-2014, 15:09   #67
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Re: Feel of safety, feel of comfort

What if the wife is the owner?
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Old 14-01-2014, 15:13   #68
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Re: Feel of safety, feel of comfort

On a boat of this size, with the gadgets you are to have, there will be plenty of ongoing maint. Regardless of the systems you select. Boats are complex these days, esp large ones.
In 2010 I was given a tour of a 58m superyacht. I studied Engineering and spent 25 years as an IT Networking engineer. That boat needed someone like me on board full time, just to keep the networking and control systems operational...

I was interested in your comments about Hydraulics and Another about Vacuum Toilets. Both of these systems are widely used commercially, and, when designed and installed properly, are very reliable.

This vessel is almost certain to have Hydraulic steering...
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Old 14-01-2014, 15:44   #69
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Re: Feel of safety, feel of comfort

Quote:
You are right of course.
I was asking the question regarding feeling of safety as a part of psychical comfort for the less experienced and less sailing-devoted members of owners party. Statistically the most important such a person is owner's wife.

You cannot buy. design or get a boat thats will satisfy someone that doesn't want to be there in the first place. This is a fools goal errand. No amount of sows ears/silk purses, lilies and gold paint, will address the issue.

I suspect you have a situation where a women does really want to be on a boat or go sailing, in that regards the question you are posing cannot be answered.

If on the other hand , you have a willing participant then of course it makes sense to see what they ( she) thinks is important, typically its fairly similar to all other sailors.

you cannot make someone sail if they fundamentally don't enjoy it. No matter how many mod cons or safety systems you invent. or buy

Dave
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Old 14-01-2014, 15:45   #70
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Re: Feel of safety, feel of comfort

Quote:
Originally Posted by neilpride View Post
Haaa Good one, but you say without depend of engineers onboard, one of the best bussines here in the season is to fix toilets in the megabucks !!! lol there is a 90 plus size boat with all the vacum things doing weird , the only working toilet in the owner cabin with 5 crew onboard , i understand manual toilets dont have place in this boats, but for the crew ???????

I have vacuum toilet system. Or rather two systems - each consisting of two toilets. I learnt (hard way, I must admit), that there are three factors determining the reliability of vacuum system. One is maintenance - normal thing. Second is the quality of water. Third is proper usage.
On plus side - PROPER maintenance (at least for my system) is extremely easy. It is just necessary to find the proper schedule and procedurę. The user manual was second to useless for this. Probably was intended for camper cars rather, not boats.
I just wonder if the problems on this 90+ ft boat could begin with the crew not so keen to do this job BEFORE something go completely wrong???
By the way - in the case of my vacuum system it is not a dirty work at all. Rather somewhat boring... But when You omit the maintenance... Yes, then it can be very dirty work. And more complicated either...

Little more difficult is the problem of water quality. The best is simply the water from watermaker. With this You can at least double or triple the intervals for maintenance. Shore water at a lot of locations must be filtered well first.

User abuse is the biggest problem. As usual with the systems, I dare say.
On my boat any new guest is given a proper lecture. Next goes solemn promise, that the person inflicting clogging system will personally clear all the s..t of it. I'm well known for keeping my word. Next the lecture is repeated (repetitio mater studiorum est). Happily second lecture is given much more attention from the prospective users of the system
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Old 14-01-2014, 15:47   #71
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Re: Feel of safety, feel of comfort

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Originally Posted by tamicatana View Post
What if the wife is the owner?
It is just good. I only addressed the statistically dominant situation.
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Old 14-01-2014, 15:53   #72
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Re: Feel of safety, feel of comfort

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neptune's Gear View Post
I was interested in your comments about Hydraulics and Another about Vacuum Toilets. Both of these systems are widely used commercially, and, when designed and installed properly, are very reliable.

This vessel is almost certain to have Hydraulic steering...
I think hydraulic systems are really reliable. Problem is, that anything can fail sometime, and in more remote locations fixing the hydraulic systems is still much more difficult, than mechanical or electrical systems.

This vessel will not have hydraulic steering.
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Old 14-01-2014, 15:57   #73
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Re: Feel of safety, feel of comfort

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neptune's Gear View Post
I was interested in comments about Vacuum Toilets.
I've just posted my personal view. Can only add that after several years with the comfort of vacuum system I would not personally go with anything else.
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Old 14-01-2014, 15:59   #74
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Re: Feel of safety, feel of comfort

When we were looking at boats, my wife was interested in safety for her children and grandchildren were far more important the comfort. When she walked on to the Eagle she just know it was her boat even though it was a stark, shippy, ugly commercial finished trawler with few creature comfort. I was not a happy camper.

The boat was solid when she walked onto and around the boat, a wide body, no side decks, the stern and Portuguese bridge rails are high and solid, easy to get on/off and in/out of the boat, and no steep stairs, hand holds thought the boat, full displacement so it does not roll/keel when under way, she could not hear water lapping/slapping against the hull in the statrooms and It was the biggest and safest boat she could find within our budget.

She saw a diamond in the rough that she could remodel, up dated the creature comfortable from stem to stern and ceiling to the deck. New electronics, electric heads, carpeting, curtains, canvas enclosures, diesel heating system, bedding, upholstery, stove/oven, refrigerator, sinks/counters tops, and re painting/varnishing over a 3 year period.

I tell male newbies to follow their SO around to see what her likes/dislikes are and let her have a majority say and the final final final say on the boat. 16+ years we been a live aboard mainly because my wife found and bought the boat she wanted
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Old 14-01-2014, 16:14   #75
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Re: Feel of safety, feel of comfort

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When she walked on to the Eagle she just know it was her boat. I was not a happy camper.
If I ever go motor way, I want to find the boat so homely as Yours

Pay my regards to Your wife

Tomasz
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