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Old 02-08-2015, 01:52   #31
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Re: Family of 6 circumnavigaton

Some comments re TdF... people do the channels in cats but big cats are restricted in choice of caletas as some are quite 'squeezy'.

Weather through the 'winter' 6 months is typically better than summer.... just cold. Avoid July in the southern end.. that is cold and dark.

Chances of getting off the boat are limited much of the time... some anchorages are good... many are not due to heavy vegetation down to the waters edge.... serious risk in winter of cabin fever.... haven't been down there with children but even with 'grown ups' I have seen games of UNO end up with blood in the scuppers...
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Old 02-08-2015, 07:12   #32
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Re: Family of 6 circumnavigaton

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Originally Posted by weavis View Post
I fear some of your comments got lost in the posting-let me correct it for you.

Lol now were changing people's post because we don't agree.

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Old 02-08-2015, 07:25   #33
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Re: Family of 6 circumnavigaton

Your questions are quite polarizing. Most want to do what you asked but ither can't or won't and figure those that ask shouldn't. Do your research buy a boat live aboard for a while to test the waters and if you decide cast off. The best way to lean Is to start.

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Old 02-08-2015, 08:13   #34
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Re: Family of 6 circumnavigaton

Hi Justin,

A Beneteau First is NOT the boat to have. Its a race boat, not a cruiser. One sank last year killing 4 people because it was inappropriately used.

The best boats in your list are the Beneteau 50 and any of the catamarans u can afford.

I would suggest an excharter boat as they have as many cabins as possible and with that bunch of juvenile ratbags you will have racing around the decks the minor blemishes of an excharter boat will be inconsequential. Boys will be boys!

You plan as a whole is all quite acheivable and over the next few years you will hone it better.

It will gve you a wonderful life and your kids will remember it fondly for the whole of theirs.

Currently you spend just an hour or so at home with your children because you work most of the time. If you keep that up they will have grown up while you are in some meeting. But going on an adventure like this will have you with them every hour of the day, guiding them, educating them, knowing them.
What would you prefer?
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Old 02-08-2015, 08:13   #35
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Re: Family of 6 circumnavigaton

Quote:
Originally Posted by scuba0_1 View Post
Lol now were changing people's post because we don't agree.

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His post is unchanged.

If you missed the humour, sarcasm and pointing out that it was only his opinion and it did not stand up to factual reality, then yes, I plead guilty to not agreeing with donradcliffes post. Nor did I miss the subsequent post regarding a Catamaran that sank during a voyage as being a subtle reinforcing of the idea that Catamarans are less safe than monos. It seems churlish to point out the multitude of monos that sink in bad weather because as far as reality shows, bad weather destroys boats in the right circumstances regardless of hulls.

It is wonderful that so many sailors do not let the facts stand in the way of their prejudices.
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Old 02-08-2015, 08:22   #36
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Re: Family of 6 circumnavigaton

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
Hi Justin,

A Beneteau First is NOT the boat to have. Its a race boat, not a cruiser. One sank last year killing 4 people because it was inappropriately used.

The best boats in your list are the Beneteau 50 and any of the catamarans u can afford.

I would suggest an excharter boat as they have as many cabins as possible and with that bunch of juvenile ratbags you will have racing around the decks the minor blemishes of an excharter boat will be inconsequential. Boys will be boys!

You plan as a whole is all quite acheivable and over the next few years you will hone it better.

It will gve you a wonderful life and your kids will remember it fondly for the whole of theirs.

Currently you spend just an hour or so at home with your children because you work most of the time. If you keep that up they will have grown up while you are in some meeting. But going on an adventure like this will have you with them every hour of the day, guiding them, educating them, knowing them.
What would you prefer?
Well said sir.
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Old 02-08-2015, 08:27   #37
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Re: Family of 6 circumnavigaton

It means different when the word "Moderator" is under your name. And its Latin rejoinder.
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Old 02-08-2015, 09:14   #38
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Re: Family of 6 circumnavigaton

..Humm.. I jump a little late on the discussion.. Been there.. check every possible boat to go out with my family.. from proas to catamaran and monohulls..
After a lot of time thinking about it we choose a motorsail..
Maybe a good idea check it? Mostly are very comfortable, have a lot of inside space and the extra safety margin.. they're mostly slow and sail very bad (or so) but you can get a huge engine to help you if you have some trouble on water...
Just my 0.2 cents...
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Old 02-08-2015, 09:22   #39
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Re: Family of 6 circumnavigaton

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Sorry, perhaps because of RH I am being a little defensive of those who still have the courage to actually mention on an internet forum that they want to go cruising with their family.
OMG

Try googling "family car accident' and then you'll be thinking that you shouldn't be taking your family in a car, Wait, families die in house fires. Not safe to keep them at home. Hmm send the children too their school, ohh no there might be a shooting massacre. Put them in a MAS plane, oh no, it might vanish in the Indian Ocean or get shot down over a conflict zone.

Safest bet, take them on a cruise and thanks to the USCG they'll be ok :-)

Why take one highly publicised failure and ignore all of the thousands of families who have safely done long passages and circumnavigations.

There are even plenty of cases where new children were born mid-circumnavigation. Laura Dekker was born mid circumnavigation and look how she turned out (MarkJ might not approve )


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Old 02-08-2015, 10:25   #40
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Re: Family of 6 circumnavigaton

A worthwhile read. One of the books that made me want to sail across oceans as a kid and probably relevant to the OPs needs.
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Old 02-08-2015, 10:38   #41
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Re: Family of 6 circumnavigaton

If the oldest kids are interested in the actual sailing, you might want to consider getting Pontos Trimmer 4-speed winches for the genoa. Makes it easy for a young kid to trim the sails. Somewhere on their site of a kid doing just that.

http://pontos.fr/gb/winches/2-trimmer.html


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Old 02-08-2015, 10:39   #42
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Re: Family of 6 circumnavigaton

Still no answer to Tingum's post #15.

No surprise there.
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Old 02-08-2015, 10:58   #43
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Re: Family of 6 circumnavigaton

Quote:
Originally Posted by weavis View Post
His post is unchanged.

If you missed the humour, sarcasm and pointing out that it was only his opinion and it did not stand up to factual reality, then yes, I plead guilty to not agreeing with donradcliffes post. Nor did I miss the subsequent post regarding a Catamaran that sank during a voyage as being a subtle reinforcing of the idea that Catamarans are less safe than monos. It seems churlish to point out the multitude of monos that sink in bad weather because as far as reality shows, bad weather destroys boats in the right circumstances regardless of hulls.

It is wonderful that so many sailors do not let the facts stand in the way of their prejudices.
I'm not against multihulls (in fact I just recommended a powercat to a friend for coastal cruising). However, I'm against mutihull promoters who use the logic that if a few cats (or even a few hundred) successfully negotiate some heavy weather that they are all safer than monos. I've spent enough days on the ocean (well over 100,000 miles) to know that a passage is like a lottery ticket--one of these days a combination of wave and wind is going to hit you that is going to really test your boat and your seamanship.

Showing videos of cats sipping tea and playing dominoes in heavy weather just builds the hubris that makes some idiot take them out in the North Atlantic in the winter or even the spring. If my 'reminders' prevent just one family from flipping their cat near the Azores and losing a child, its worth the flack I have to take from the likes of you.
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Old 02-08-2015, 11:18   #44
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Re: Family of 6 circumnavigaton

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Paul,
Yes I like to have ALL my ducks in a row. Professionally i'm an analyst. I make a living distilling information. You should see my spread sheets for this trip.

Chall, yeah I agree especially for the longer passages. Unfortunately, I will probably run up against the hard constraint of # of berths in a monohull. Hopefully not though. A cat would be ideal for many reasons.

Udacha,
Wow that's awesome. I will reach out to Liza.

The reason I posted was to see if there was another family with 4 kids who could weigh in. The age/ gender arrangement of my kids presents something of a challenge, at least on a monohull. Looking at layouts only tells me if there are enough berths, not whether the spaces flow well enough to house a family. A small space can be fine if it's well thought out and flows well. Conversely a larger boat may be poorly laid out for a family to live on.

Does anyone have input on the loaded capacity of 38-40' cats. I have the actual numbers but I'm sort of at a loss on the practical side of it. I think the Lavezzi load capacity is around 5,500 lbs... After 750 lbs of people, 469 lbs of fuel and 1,235 lbs of fuel = 2454lbs. That's 3,000 lbs left. Add in anchors, rode , and dinghy with outboard well that's probably another 1000lbs so down to 2,000. Plus food and spares etc.. seems like I could easily overload.

Justin
I'm no expert on boats, but my preference is a catamaran, because in my experience at sea (10 yrs in submarines) it's much easier to live (cook, eat, shower, sleep, watch a movie, clean, read, study, etc) when the boat is level and not rocking, or pounding into waves while at a 25* angle.

I've been catamaran "window shopping for over a yr now, and my recommendation would be a 45-50' cat, both for it's interior space and berths and also for their increased load capacity while still retaining some semblance of speed.

I'd recommend tightening the belt, saving money faster, waiting just a bit longer, so you can afford a $200-225K cat and a few upgrades, like solar panels and maybe a portable genny, because you will definitely need a decent sized water maker for 6 people on board. A friend of mine on a fixed income was complaining to me he couldn't live on the measly $4800/mo he gets tax free! I helped him switch cell phone carriers, change cable plans, etc and shaved over $1,000 mo. off of his expenses, without changing his lifestyle at all.

Another plus to waiting is the older kids might actually help with watchstanding. I've stood port and stbd watches (6 on, 6 off) and the sleep deprivation was very marked after just a week. Much slower response time, feeling like you were in a fog, poorer decisions, completely missed obvious clues, etc. If you've got an IQ of 150, imagine trying to fight a casualty out in the middle of the ocean with only a 100 IQ. What seems like the obvious response now, doesn't even occur to you when you're dead tired. Having 3 or 4 watchstanders can help eliminate that possibility, and it can mean the difference between making it or not.

As the youngest children get more self sufficient, your wife won't be overwhelmed just taking care of them, she'll be able to help you with sailing the boat. Overall, I think that cruising with children is a very good way to spend their formative years as long as they're learning to be part of a team, independent thinking, home schooling, etc.

However, I don't think children under 5 retain much of their memories. The foundation laid may be excellent, just specific memories may not remain. Couple that with the time one needs to spend feeding, bathing, etc small children, it's obvious why I think children should be mostly self sufficient (at least be able to get their own cereal in the morning) before a family takes off on an adventure that involves watchstanding and winching of sails.

With any luck, the 42' Venezia "More Joy Everywhere" will still be for sale when you're ready. They poured tens of thousands into it in 2012 outfitting it for circumnavigation (lots of electronics, watermaker and a washer/dryer, etc) and now it's sitting looking for a buyer for $165K.

more JOY everywhere!: Operation BABSAM


I heartily endorse your endeavor, I think it will be a great adventure for the entire family, provided the youngest child is at least 5 and the 2 oldest are responsible enough to stand watch, it will be a lot of fun, and not too much stress on your wife.

Good luck! Looking forward to more posts as you zero in on a specific boat or style and make more plans.
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Old 02-08-2015, 11:39   #45
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Re: Family of 6 circumnavigaton

Quote:
Originally Posted by Belaurora View Post
Paul,

Yes I like to have ALL my ducks in a row. Professionally i'm an analyst. I make a living distilling information. You should see my spread sheets for this trip.



Chall, yeah I agree especially for the longer passages. Unfortunately, I will probably run up against the hard constraint of # of berths in a monohull. Hopefully not though. A cat would be ideal for many reasons.



Udacha,

Wow that's awesome. I will reach out to Liza.



The reason I posted was to see if there was another family with 4 kids who could weigh in. The age/ gender arrangement of my kids presents something of a challenge, at least on a monohull. Looking at layouts only tells me if there are enough berths, not whether the spaces flow well enough to house a family. A small space can be fine if it's well thought out and flows well. Conversely a larger boat may be poorly laid out for a family to live on.



Does anyone have input on the loaded capacity of 38-40' cats. I have the actual numbers but I'm sort of at a loss on the practical side of it. I think the Lavezzi load capacity is around 5,500 lbs... After 750 lbs of people, 469 lbs of fuel and 1,235 lbs of fuel = 2454lbs. That's 3,000 lbs left. Add in anchors, rode , and dinghy with outboard well that's probably another 1000lbs so down to 2,000. Plus food and spares etc.. seems like I could easily overload.



Justin

Yes Justin. Overloading is easy and any yachts will suffer from excess baggage. I think the Lagoon 380 has around 1.5T payload and the Lagoon 400 around 3T. I'm not sure about the FPs but the point is they will all suffer if overloaded, especially the smaller models. The best way to manage excess weight is carry only what you need, think carefully about adding heavy equipment like generators, bikes, dive compressors etc, also a WM makes a big difference as you can plan passages with 1/4 full water tanks and minimal fuel. That said, the difference in speed is likely to be less than a knot from a lean yacht to an overloaded one, and even if overloaded it will still float. Having decent downwind sails can help bridge the speed gap.
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