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Old 17-07-2011, 16:40   #46
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Re: Do You Have to Be 'Macho' to Get into this ?

there is a third option to when the engine quits--is good to now currents and winds-- is to drift until wind comes up..LOL.... did that for 36 hours off cedros.....
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Old 17-07-2011, 16:55   #47
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0/15/20/22 rule

With my wife I've ended up with a 0/15/20/22 rule.

The zero is for rain. Cloudy is OK.

The 15/20 is wind speed. Bitter experience. Over 20 knots she hates it. We try for 15 forecast max.

22 is the forecast maximum temperature in degrees Celsius. Sure we can go when its cooler, but if 22 is the max 16 in the min, anything below that just is not comfortable on our boat.

As long as the weather is within those constraints we all have a great time.

Can we do it cruising? With care, caution and patience I'm hoping to get from Sydney to Phuket...
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Old 17-07-2011, 21:03   #48
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Re: Do You Have to Be 'Macho' to Get into this ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by maytrix View Post
I do agree, but it seems you are suggesting she continue to go out in the conditions she is not enjoying, which I don't think will help. It sounds like it would simply lead to her determining she doesn't enjoy it.

I think the very bottom line is that she needs to make her partner very aware of how she feels so he can moderate their sailing in a way that suits her and also take her out in weather she will enjoy.
On this line of thought, there is a good chapter in the book I suggest above called something like “The Mate You Scare Might Be Yours”. There is also heaps of good advice about planning and sailing as a real couple. Even though I tend to sail alone, after I read the book I felt like going out and finding a lady to enjoy the experience with. I note, a lot of the book seems to be written by Lin and the writing style suggests that the cooperative approach on board extends through their entire lifestyle.
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Old 18-07-2011, 02:41   #49
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Re: Do You Have to Be 'Macho' to Get into this ?

I agree with those who say that not really OP's fault - indeed I would ask WTF is the skipper (and Partner) doing not only taking her out in conditions she clearly hates - but also asking (shouting at?!) her to do tasks she is clearly not comfortable with (and which he has failed to fully train her on). Lets just hope he has a good Divorce lawyer

FWIW I think it entirely sensible for someone who does not fully understand a task to be hesitant to perform them - on a boat you could lose fingers (or worse) by doing the wrong thing at the wrong time - an insecure person shouting ain't gonna change that.

IMO a good cruising crew operates mostly without verbal commands, everyone knows their job for the task involved.....but that takes time to build that up.....and a Skipper who knows how to do that.
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Old 18-07-2011, 04:53   #50
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Re: Do You Have to Be 'Macho' to Get into this ?

Wow this is a lively thread!
Patience "normal sailing conditions" are very subjective.

Our neighbour goes out sailing every Friday afternoon with a bunch of guys and always judges the day's sail by how much they heeled. We just laugh. They are hard over and going nowhere. It may be fun for a short time but believe me when you are passage making nobody wants to be heeled hard over for long. And when you liveaboard hard heeling just means for a mess in the cabin. You may find half of your belongings on the salon floor, even when you store things away. (racers boat cabins are nearly empty). We shorten sail, often pass the boats that are heeled hard over and enjoy a more comfortable ride.

If you are out in a good wind, then a luffing sail will really make a racket and raising and lowering the sails will probably be a little noisy too. In a good wind, everything happens faster, so tacking, raising or lowering the mainsail and manouvering may require fast reactions. This can seem stressful at first. Some people live for it and that's why they race. Some crews like to yell out comands. I've crewed on boats like that.

We prefer to do our best to act calmly as a team under all conditions. It took a little time and some training, but mostly we are successful. I learned that I needed to ask Manny what he wants me to do in advance. I operate better that way. Maybe he'll point out where the tricky bits will be (like release that sheet slowly because the wind will grab the sail as we come around...) and then I'll be prepared for the challenge. This is definetly where my sailing lessons came in handy.

Robyn
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Old 19-07-2011, 11:05   #51
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Re: Do You Have to Be 'Macho' to Get into this ?

I am a female and a new sailor (this is my second summer), I am in my mid-50's and I have experienced everything everyone has said. I am not a 'scaredy cat' in my day-to-day life, but for some reason sailing scares the heck out of me. Having said that, I REALLY want to learn how to sail. We (I) have taken lessons, taken a week-long liveaboard course, my partner has allowed me to pick the days we sail, and if I am 'not having any fun' we go in. There are a ton of boats in any marina that sit empty because one half of the couple ignored how the other half felt about learning to sail.

Things are getting better...the other day when we came in my hubby said that last year I would have been crying in similar conditions......baby steps! I think the desire to learn will help and I also agree that repetition is key. The other factor that can get in the way is 'anticipatory anxiety'...what if we do x, what if y happens etc etc. Don't allow yourself to go there.

Also, show some of these posts to your partner - he needs to get a grip or get used to sailing with his buddies - or alone!
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Old 21-07-2011, 06:00   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patience Sky
I want some ladies perspectives. I am really sad that I have been planning to sail with my partner on our lovely boat and it's not turning out like I thought. When we first bought it, we had some "pleasant" sails and I was getting into it. Then it was on the hard for a while and now that we have it back in the water, every time we go out, I get terrified. I loved it at first but now I am experiencing fear and intense discomfort. I am afraid to say I think I might hate this. I know older people cruise, handicapped people cruise, kids and dogs go too so HOW art they doing it in comfort and enjoyment? it's a great boat and the skipper is totally confident, capable and experienced and even though I don't know much, I was really keen on learning but I can't get past the stress and anxiety. The other day we were out and it was choppy and windy (I thought) and the guys are just fine and chatting away as casual as if they were sitting at the breakfast table, while I felt like I was on a roller coaster of near death. Please tell me how other "little old ladies" and regular people too, do this? Do you just have to be a macho thrill seeker?
You are not alone in your anxiety about sailing in rougher weather. Lots of people feel less than secure in those conditions....men and women.

The key is time on the water and experiencing all kinds of chop and wind. It might help you to force yourself to take the helm more, especially when your a little uncomfortable.

I'm in my 50's, a woman, and have sailed since I was 12. I taught my husband to sail when we first met, my kids (all girls) are competent sailors and the older 2 own a sailboat together. We all have different levels of comfort and help each other out when one's level of comfort is compromised. That includes windy conditions, storms approaching etc. I made my girls take the helm when they were uncomfortable and it really helped them.

I taught sailing for years to teenage girls and to families...everybody is different but one thing I learned, was that a woman new to sailing, especially with a man that has some experience, is not likely to really push themselves to become competent.

You sound like you want to enjoy it and be competent...many people, if not most, go through a period in their early sailing experiences where they question whether they really want to continue sailing.

I really believe with experience you'll enjoy it more and more....daysailing and cruising are awesome ways to enjoy life.
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Old 21-07-2011, 10:36   #53
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Re: Do You Have to Be 'Macho' to Get into this ?

sailormom, Very nice first post and welcome aboard great to have you here
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Old 22-07-2011, 08:22   #54
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Re: Do You Have to Be 'Macho' to Get into this ?

Thanks courageous cat, I am new to the whole blogging idea so i do appreciate your words of encouragement!
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Old 22-07-2011, 16:28   #55
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Thanks courageous cat, I am new to the whole blogging idea so i do appreciate your words of encouragement!
Great to see other lady sailprs on here.
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Old 29-07-2011, 16:47   #56
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Re: Do You Have to Be 'Macho' to Get into this ?

I find this pretty interesting how all the guys are telling the gal how it is. Tough capable old gals are my hero's. Do you like to push the envelope a little, adventure, not mind being wet and tired and scared enough to quit when this occurs. It does take women longer to get used to tipping, but we can and do get used to and then enjoy tipping as well as the next guy. If you like hiking and camping you can definitely learn to like sailing. Does the thrill negate the fear just a little? then you are on your way. I agree with everyone that your captain plays a primary role in your enjoyment of the sport/lifestyle. I would learn how to sail a dingy which is awesome fun and maybe get on a small racing boat as movable ballast for awhile. Make sure there is no yelling allowed and that the person docking the boat allows the line handler to step off and take a wrap ie knows how to dock the boat. There are different levels of participation in the sailing of their boat just as different couples manage their finances differently. Short handed cruising needs to be a team effort and we all have our areas of expertise, this needs to be recognised and promoted. I don't see a lot of high maintenance women on any but the crewed yachts, / because it will jostle their do? Most cruising women I've met are pretty capable. I sail like a girl and I'm proud of it, can beat many of the guys in a dingy, it does not require muscle. Many of the tasks aboard a cruising yacht do require a mans' or a machines' power. Cruising is challenging to a partnership as you need to meld into a team not needed on shore.
It's the best game going for me.
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Old 29-07-2011, 17:32   #57
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Re: Do You Have to Be 'Macho' to Get into this ?

There are several very good sailing schools for women I am aware of-Womanship.com, based in Annapolis, Sisteship.com based in Tortola, BVI. Both offer winter courses in the Caribbean strictly for women. Gives you confidence and a good deal of knowledge and a fair amount of experience in a short time. Some of the comments suggested chartering-combine a winter charter with a 3 day saiing course and it would be a great vacation.
Note that I am a guy, but I have known several women who went through the Annapolis school and they were uniformly thrilled with the experience.
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Old 29-07-2011, 20:51   #58
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Re: Do You Have to Be 'Macho' to Get into this ?

I have over 20,000 ocean miles. I have seen 70+knots of wind in the Atlantic . Having said that, I get anxious when my guy pushes Rain Dog past 25 degrees. 20 degrees is my comfort zone, brian loves the rails in the water. We compromise by sailing 15-25 degrees and no further :-). Comfort and a feeling of safety trumphs all else, period. I go hang out on my cape dory 30 or have a girls night out when Brian takes the boys sailing, they can drag the spreaders in the water for all I care :-).

I also attribute my discomfort to an uneasiness over the rig. Once Rain dog has new rigging and her masthead is restored, I think Brian pushing the boat wouldn't worry me as much.
Hope that helps,
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Old 08-08-2011, 18:02   #59
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Re: Do You Have to Be 'Macho' to Get into this ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patience Sky View Post
I want some ladies perspectives. I am really sad that I have been planning to sail with my partner on our lovely boat and it's not turning out like I thought. When we first bought it, we had some "pleasant" sails and I was getting into it. Then it was on the hard for a while and now that we have it back in the water, every time we go out, I get terrified. I loved it at first but now I am experiencing fear and intense discomfort. I am afraid to say I think I might hate this. I know older people cruise, handicapped people cruise, kids and dogs go too so HOW art they doing it in comfort and enjoyment? it's a great boat and the skipper is totally confident, capable and experienced and even though I don't know much, I was really keen on learning but I can't get past the stress and anxiety. The other day we were out and it was choppy and windy (I thought) and the guys are just fine and chatting away as casual as if they were sitting at the breakfast table, while I felt like I was on a roller coaster of near death. Please tell me how other "little old ladies" and regular people too, do this? Do you just have to be a macho thrill seeker?
Get as much experience as you can on calmer days. Are you in a relationship where he does all the "important" stuff and you just follow orders? If that's how it is, then you won't fully understand why he is doing what, and what makes it SAFE.

I think you should get some sailing lessons without him. Learn to truly sail yourself so you don't have to just trust that others know what they're doing. It isn't scary IF you understand what's going on.
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Old 20-08-2011, 15:31   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yofy
Wow this is a lively thread!
Patience "normal sailing conditions" are very subjective.

Our neighbour goes out sailing every Friday afternoon with a bunch of guys and always judges the day's sail by how much they heeled. We just laugh. They are hard over and going nowhere. It may be fun for a short time but believe me when you are passage making nobody wants to be heeled hard over for long. And when you liveaboard hard heeling just means for a mess in the cabin. You may find half of your belongings on the salon floor, even when you store things away. (racers boat cabins are nearly empty). We shorten sail, often pass the boats that are heeled hard over and enjoy a more comfortable ride.

If you are out in a good wind, then a luffing sail will really make a racket and raising and lowering the sails will probably be a little noisy too. In a good wind, everything happens faster, so tacking, raising or lowering the mainsail and manouvering may require fast reactions. This can seem stressful at first. Some people live for it and that's why they race. Some crews like to yell out comands. I've crewed on boats like that.

We prefer to do our best to act calmly as a team under all conditions. It took a little time and some training, but mostly we are successful. I learned that I needed to ask Manny what he wants me to do in advance. I operate better that way. Maybe he'll point out where the tricky bits will be (like release that sheet slowly because the wind will grab the sail as we come around...) and then I'll be prepared for the challenge. This is definetly where my sailing lessons came in handy.

Robyn
I bought a boat of my own after crewing for others and loving it. I've been living aboard for the last year and a half and learning a great deal about what comfort and pleasure mean to me and learning that comfort becomes relative! If you love sailing, but are anxious in higher wind, definitely take sailing lessons. The straight couples who sail happily and often in our yacht club all have the woman on the tiller and the man trimming. If you're steering, you can decide how much you want to heel. Trimming sails requires some strength (not more than the average middle aged woman can handle) but the wheel/tiller requires someone who is very aware and alert. Also, being in charge of steering gives you a sense of control over the situation that lessens anxiety.
At the end of the day, ask yourself- am I enjoying this? If you're not, then don't force yourself. It's supposed to be fun-this isn't Dunkirk-don't do something you hate. If you're not at the helm at least half the time, its too much like riding on the back of a motorcycle. All the risk and half the fun. If your guy really loves sailing, and it's your boat too, then you'll both be happier sharing the skipper duties. You can be the upwind skip, he can handle downwind. Take ownership of the boat and the sport - or cheer him on from shore while you do something you do enjoy. The shorter answer would be: macho women don't do anything they don't want to! Wimps stay onboard when they're not comfortable. Good luck- stay true to yourself!
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