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Old 04-07-2013, 14:10   #121
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Re: Admiral?

OK, I am burning my second bra on CF since joining (in fact, second one ever). I will run out of bras rapidly at this rate, but on the up side it may clear some space on board for more shoes .

Nine females have responded on this thread.
Only two stated that they are OK with the term "admiral"
One was unclear.

Responses from 6 (the rest) were:
"Plain patronising"
"Can't stand it. Always looks demeaning"
"It's patronizing and offensive"
"I find the term offensive"
"I don't appreciate the term"
"It is patronising"

Guys, lots of women really don't like this term and regardless of what you call your partner in private, continually referring to them as "admiral" on the forum IS offensive to many members here .

Would anyone like to voice an opinion on how they feel about the use of the term "my dear"?
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Old 04-07-2013, 14:39   #122
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Re: Admiral?

I think we need some balance here. Are there any males on the forum who's significant other is the captain? How do they feel about the term?

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Old 04-07-2013, 14:41   #123
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Re: Admiral?

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Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
Admiral sounds better than Cook and Deckhand.
or passenger
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Old 04-07-2013, 14:52   #124
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Re: Admiral?

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Originally Posted by deepblueln View Post
Are you still going to submit to her wishes when it is re: where/when/how to anchor; whether after a long passage you ride out one more night in the open, or attempt the narrow inlet in the dark; when a storm blows up and a decision has to be made whether to reef or not .... the fact that you put BEDROOM in quotes makes it seem like you regard her as a difficult and clueless passenger to be placated - not someone who carries a full stake and decision-making responsibility.

I think the point made earlier, that it's a generational issue, is probably accurate. I've never heard this kind of thing from someone my age, and men my age are not the ones who speak and act disrespectfully toward me. That has only come from the older fellows, and from that demographic it's not been rare.
It's obvious you assume the Admiral knows less than me from your statement above. That's too bad you think of women that way. I guess you would prefer they are considered.. what? "galley wench"? However, those issues you noted would normally be the captain's responsibility. I think you need a sense of humour check....
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Old 04-07-2013, 15:34   #125
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Re: Admiral?

I think that there is probably a need to factor in some allowance for geographical and cultural diversity on this international forum. As a person living in the US I am familiar with the nuances related to age and cutural differences that might cause people to interpret the term "admiral" in different ways when addressing your spouse, but I'm at a total loss with "My dear". I just have no experience with the form of addressing anyone this way. I am not sure, but would I be amiss if I were to say that this is tantamount to saying, "Don't worry your sweet little head about it."
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Old 04-07-2013, 15:57   #126
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Re: Admiral?

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Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass View Post
Plain patronising.
Haven't come across a woman yet who likes the term.
No idea why men here persist in using it .
I have my woman on the phone right now. She doesn't like the title. She thinks we should be equal but I remind her there cannot be two captains. She prefers 1st Mate to Admiral. However, she continues to believe compromise is a valid resolution, so take it with a grain of salt.

Calling the lady the Admiral is patronizing but it is a show of respect too. Basically, the title is in recognition that "if mama is happy, everyone is happy". The converse is also true. Perhaps that too is patronizing but no man alive would prefer to consort with an unhappy woman. Even in ancient text it is noted that, It is better to live on a rooftop than with a contentious wife.

What the Admiral wants, the Admiral gets. This is true even when she wants her man to be happy. Her truth does not supercede the wisdom of keeping the Admiral happy.
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Old 04-07-2013, 16:02   #127
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Re: Admiral?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass View Post

Guys, lots of women really don't like this term and regardless of what you call your partner in private, continually referring to them as "admiral" on the forum IS offensive to many members here .
I don't see the word itself as being in the same sort of league as the name of my father's cat (when he was a kid, many eons ago!), the one which funnily enough was not actually black .

IMO what would be offensive if the word was used to and about a person if they a) found it offensive and b) they told the other person and requested them to desist (internet and real life)..........and I don't see anyone on CF directing that word at anyone, mostly referring about own Admiral - and if CF want to go down the route of dictating how members conduct and refer to their own real life relationships then good luck with .

Quote:
Would anyone like to voice an opinion on how they feel about the use of the term "my dear"?
Not inherently offensive. In fact I would find it very welcome - as how used and by whom would be very informative. YMMV, luv .
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Old 04-07-2013, 16:40   #128
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Re: Admiral?

Notice the OP's cute little avatar picture. 'Me thinks the lady doth protest too much"
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Old 04-07-2013, 17:19   #129
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That's over 460 8-hour days, so you must be doing this for a living. If you're being paid a decent wage turn some of that business down.

I'm no expert but I do believe that that ratio of work to sailing will not lead to happiness.

The guy who works on my boat is very dependable, but a couple of times he has called me and said, "Everybody's free (wife and two young teen kids, and the weather's great. We're going sailing, and I'll se you tomorrow."

I applaud it. They get precious little time to sail together and they all love it. It would be a sailor's dream family.


It's far fewer days when most are between 12-18 hours, 7 days a week too. Longest this month was 23.5 hours one day and back at it in 3 hours for another long day, lol. Got him off the dock for the weekend though!
Not everyone is as understanding as you are about getting things done on their boat. I wish they were!

I'd be happy to sail around on any other person's boat that I wasn't fixing for a bit. I'd call them captain, admiral or president at that point lol.
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Old 04-07-2013, 17:52   #130
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The hubby and I fall into the Mike O. and Bash approach to sailing/living -- we are equal partners in all, but defer to the helm for the 'in the moment' situations. If the 'in the moment' decision didn't quite work out, we wait until the next day to discuss it and the other options we might have had and learn from our mistake. We worked all of this out years ago by running a very successful firm together.

When it comes to chores/jobs on the boat, we both share the work -- but we each have our strengths and compliment each other. I don't really understand electrical/electronic stuff, but I am a great plumber (I have a joker valve to replace in the near future)! I'm better on deck (better balance) and better in the water (more comfortable) so those types of chores fall to me. I've turned into a little weather nerd, while he is a great navigator. I am terrified of bringing the boat into a dock. While he is terrified of having to pick up a mooring. I am the one that checks us into countries because I am the better 'people' person and have infinitely more patience.

While we have been out here, I have heard husbands (of our generation) refer to their wives as admirals. Most times it was with much affection. However, there were a few in which it was used in very disparaging terms. While I was getting riled up in the wife's defense, I realized she had her way of dealing with it and she didn't need me getting in the middle of it.

In all of this, I feel you have to keep your sense of humor and not take one's self to seriously. When dealing with people, I learned years ago to adapt and switch it up, if a client wanted to deal with a man (but the particular project was in my area of expertise) Barry met with the client while I did all of the work behind the scenes (and vice versa). Simple, no muss, no fuss and the goal was achieved. We have carried this philosophy/practice into our sailing life -- it works for us.

Robyn
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Old 04-07-2013, 18:14   #131
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Re: Admiral?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmartMove View Post
The hubby and I fall into the Mike O. and Bash approach to sailing/living -- we are equal partners in all, but defer to the helm for the 'in the moment' situations. If the 'in the moment' decision didn't quite work out, we wait until the next day to discuss it and the other options we might have had and learn from our mistake. We worked all of this out years ago by running a very successful firm together.

When it comes to chores/jobs on the boat, we both share the work -- but we each have our strengths and compliment each other. I don't really understand electrical/electronic stuff, but I am a great plumber (I have a joker valve to replace in the near future)! I'm better on deck (better balance) and better in the water (more comfortable) so those types of chores fall to me. I've turned into a little weather nerd, while he is a great navigator. I am terrified of bringing the boat into a dock. While he is terrified of having to pick up a mooring. I am the one that checks us into countries because I am the better 'people' person and have infinitely more patience.

While we have been out here, I have heard husbands (of our generation) refer to their wives as admirals. Most times it was with much affection. However, there were a few in which it was used in very disparaging terms. While I was getting riled up in the wife's defense, I realized she had her way of dealing with it and she didn't need me getting in the middle of it.

In all of this, I feel you have to keep your sense of humor and not take one's self to seriously. When dealing with people, I learned years ago to adapt and switch it up, if a client wanted to deal with a man (but the particular project was in my area of expertise) Barry met with the client while I did all of the work behind the scenes (and vice versa). Simple, no muss, no fuss and the goal was achieved. We have carried this philosophy/practice into our sailing life -- it works for us.

Robyn
This excellent attitude is representative of most of the successful long-term cruising couples that we have met over the years.

I personally can't imagine cruising with someone who got upset over such a title used in a friendly fashion. That sort of tetchyness does not bode well for getting along in what can be a stressful environment at times.

It's sorta like the difference between calling someone a "sumbitch" or a "good ole sumbitch" in some cultures...

Cheers,

Jim
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Old 04-07-2013, 19:13   #132
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Re: Admiral?

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Originally Posted by SmartMove View Post
In all of this, I feel you have to keep your sense of humor and not take one's self to seriously. When dealing with people, I learned years ago to adapt and switch it up, ... We have carried this philosophy/practice into our sailing life -- it works for us.
Beautifully written Robyn. Not every insult that I perceive is intended as such. Difference is not always meant to be a challenge. We all carry our culture experiences with us, and that includes generational differences. I always try to be respectful of others, and to change when I've been a bonehead (which happens all too often). And I often ask myself, what will future generations think of the attitudes and beliefs I hold? What will be perceived as crazy, wrong, or just plain bad.

We all have blind spots. Learning to spot my own is the hardest lesson I continue to learn. And in kind, I try not to be too judgmental of others.
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Old 04-07-2013, 19:55   #133
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Re: Admiral?

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Interesting thread, but some are too serious...

Captain/Admiral relationship....we have a saying "if momma ain't happy know one is happy"...momma=admiral. All non-immediate decisions are cleared through the Admiral or as some call her management. This pecking order has kept me from getting into trouble many times, like when I want to buy the canon for the boat...what trouble could I get into?

The relationship of mother to her children *should* be nothing like the relationship with her husband. Had my husband called me either "admiral" or "management" I would have been extremely insulted as the insinuation there is that I was a "she who must be obeyed."

Excuse me, but I didn't get a trained dog. I got a husband, an equal partner.
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Old 04-07-2013, 20:07   #134
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The relationship of mother to her children *should* be nothing like the relationship with her husband. Had my husband called me either "admiral" or "management" I would have been extremely insulted as the insinuation there is that I was a "she who must be obeyed."

Excuse me, but I didn't get a trained dog. I got a husband, an equal partner.
Hmmm, most women would prefer a trained dog , ( who also looked like George clooney )


I don't use the term , admiral in direct conversation with my wife . But I really don't see the offence, I see it as a term of endearment ( like " pet" or " sweetie" ) some women don't like such terms but many have no issue.


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Old 04-07-2013, 20:10   #135
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Re: Admiral?

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I think we need some balance here. Are there any males on the forum who's significant other is the captain? How do they feel about the term?


I'm sorry, but it only matters how the woman being called that name feels about it. If I call Joe over there a jerk but he likes it, it's OK. But if Joe doesn't like it and i like Joe, I should shut my pie hole.

I think one of the most difficult things about marriage is when the partner does something that's actually a little hurtful, but he -- or she -- thinks it's cute or something, and won't give it up. But this one would be a sticking point with me. Every time a man calls his wife the "admiral," he's saying she's bossy and must be appeased even though he has the "real" knowledge.

That's what has been said here by the men in favor of using the term. I'm starting to think of it as the "a" word.
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