Admiral?

[captain58sailin]

Seems like a touchy subject for some. It would seem to be a private issue between couples. I would never presume to address a female aboard another vessel as "Admiral" unless instructed by said female to do so. I try to address people as they wish to be addressed as a respect to them. If someone introduces themselves as John, or Joan, then I use John or Joan, never Johnny, or Joany. If you find it offensive to hear someone address their own partner as Admiral, that is your problem not theirs.

[Live4boating]

Originally Posted by SaucySailoress

When I first got here, all the guys were referring to SWMBO. I asked, and was told. Liking the title very much I made up my very own for him. HWMO.

Nothing quite like keeping it real.

Dare I ask...what is swmbo?

[tamicatana]

Originally Posted by cruiserbill

Perhaps your hatred for the term is only felt by the few. If you don't like the term, tell your husband. As for me, I will stop using it, I didn't realize it was a curse word. BTW, we bang our heads on the wall too over you ladies. This isn't a one way street.

HTFU, bubba. Women not only bang their heads, they get paid less and have fewer job opportunities. Lemme call the waaambulance for ya

I can tell you this... my husband wouldn't ever consider referring to me in any sort of pejorative way, seeing as he respects me, that is. Let's see how you would feel if the women referred to you in some sort of pejorative in public discourse....

FWIW, husband also has observed the chauvinism, and generally will turn the conversation over directly to me, which generally results in an interesting uncomfortable response from the chauvinist.

[SaucySailoress]

Originally Posted by Bash

That's a "fact" I'll have to dispute. We don't have a captain/crew system on our boat, having long ago decided that the concept of captain is archaic when applied to our situation. We're not a navy ship, and we don't rely on patriarchy to keep order.

My partner is neither above or below me, at least in terms of rank. Rather, my partner is a partner. The boat is owned in partnership, and decisions are based upon a consensus of both partners.

If you envision one partner as outranking the other, you may need to rethink the concept of partner.

I disagree [edit: I don't disagree, cos that's your way of doing things, and there's nothing to dispute!!!], Bash. At the end of the day, in a 'situation', things have to get done in a pinch, and perhaps not all couples agree on everything immediately, and perhaps there's not time to 'discuss' it thoroughly. In those situations, I am perfectly happy to let his decision stand, since he is the Captain (although we register my name as Captain on the Manifest and other paperwork now, for the simple reason that he leaves to travel for work, and I thn have undisputed legal authority.

Of course, if he gets it wrong, it goes on my 'I told you so' point scoring list.

[SaucySailoress]

Originally Posted by Live4boating

Dare I ask...what is swmbo?

Ask anything you like, as long as it conforms to the Be Nice rule!!!

I'll give you three guesses. It's easy, really.

[BettyBSailin]

Well, it's good to know that I wasn't misreading the usage. It's all over the board, with all kinds of connotations.

Although, to be clear, I've heard it at the docks plenty. It's not solely a CF thing.

[BettyBSailin]

Originally Posted by SaucySailoress

When I first got here, all the guys were referring to SWMBO. I asked, and was told. Liking the title very much I made up my very own for him. HWMO.

Nothing quite like keeping it real.

What is SWMBO and HWMO?

Edit to add: I googled it. Initially, I was thinking maybe it was single white male boat owner, but then realized that didn't fit the situation at all. And I couldn't get the HWMO to cooperate.

[tamicatana]

She Who Must Be Obeyed

He Who Must Obey

[cruiserbill]

Originally Posted by tamicatana

HTFU, bubba. Women not only bang their heads, they get paid less and have fewer job opportunities. Lemme call the waaambulance for ya

I can tell you this... my husband wouldn't ever consider referring to me in any sort of pejorative way, seeing as he respects me, that is. Let's see how you would feel if the women referred to you in some sort of pejorative in public discourse....

FWIW, husband also has observed the chauvinism, and generally will turn the conversation over directly to me, which generally results in an interesting uncomfortable response from the chauvinist.

Quite testy and easily provoked. Sorry I pushed a button. Maybe you should take your own advice.

[Bash]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

oh ****! moments) then it falls to the one who is on watch, at the helm, or has the most expertise in the "oh ****" issue. My spouse and I are equal, but not identical. We each have our own expertise, and we are (mostly ) able to recognize who needs to take the lead.

I'm glad that Mike O brought this up, because the objections to a partnership ethos always seem to come in the form, "So what do you do when the **** hits the fan?"

We had what Mike calls an "Oh ****" issue about a month ago, right after breakfast, when the bilge alarm went off. It was the first time in seven years owning the boat that the emergency bilge pump (as opposed to the working pump) activated.

Wonderblond immediately went above, cranked up the diesel, weighed the anchor and got us underway while I checked the thru-hulls for gushers. Not finding a hull leak, I sampled the bilge water, determined that it was fresh, and turned off the water pressure pump. At that point we could set the autopilot and discuss our options, and ended up heading back to our slip.

(It turned out, incidentally, that a line to our transom shower had disconnected AND that the float switch to the working bilge pump had gone bad. An easy fix once we were back in the slip, especially with the two of us working together to find the leak, which of course was in the last line we checked.)

We didn't need a captain during our "oh ****" moment. What we needed, instead, was two competent partners who could take the necessary steps to solve a problem. She took the helm, and I took the bilge. How cool it is to know that my partner can get our anchored boat underway while I try to figure out what's leaking!

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Bash

That's a "fact" I'll have to dispute. We don't have a captain/crew system on our boat, having long ago decided that the concept of captain is archaic when applied to our situation. We're not a navy ship, and we don't rely on patriarchy to keep order.

+1

Thanks Bash. Those that argue for a single "captain" always cite possible emergency moments as the reason for hierarchy. Well, we operate without a captain, first mate or admiral, and we have yet to sink, crash (hard), or explode. My spouse and I can each take the lead in moments of need, and I said, it depends on who is in the best position to act.

In fact, I would argue that it is less safe for a sailing couple to have this kind of hierarchy. Each member of a short-handed crew should be able, willing and confident to take on all critical roles. A "first mate" who is unable to act with confidence in the "oh ****" moment is an unsafe member of the crew.

[SaucySailoress]

Originally Posted by Bash

I'm glad that Mike O brought this up, because the objections to a partnership ethos always seem to come in the form, "So what do you do when the **** hits the fan?" heading back to our slip.
.......
We didn't need a captain during our "oh ****" moment. What we needed, instead, was two competent partners who could take the necessary steps to solve a problem. She took the helm, and I took the bilge. How cool it is to know that my partner can get our anchored boat underway while I try to figure out what's leaking!

That's probably how most issues get sorted - by cooperation and teamwork. Hell, when HWMO and I would race with no crew, we'd winn 100% because our teamwork is so good.

It's those moments of disagreement which coincide with potential disater, when there has to be a prior agreement that the Captain's decision is final. IMO.

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by Bash

?...We don't have a captain/crew system on our boat, having long ago decided that the concept of captain is archaic when applied to our situation. We're not a navy ship, and we don't rely on patriarchy to keep order.

My partner is neither above or below me, at least in terms of rank. Rather, my partner is a partner. The boat is owned in partnership, and decisions are based upon a consensus of both partners.

If you envision one partner as outranking the other, you may need to rethink the concept of partner.

We work on the same system as you Bash, as do lots of other cruising couples we have come across with similar sailing skills.

On our boat whoever is on watch (and this is clearcut at all times even when making short hops, as whoever is on watch is also responsible for keeping a lookout as well as being at the helm) is in charge when snap decisions need to be made. Everything else is discussed unless the other is sleeping.

When we first started sailing a few decades ago we decided that if there was any disagreement whatsoever about what each thought best or wanted to do, we simply took the safest option without any argument or resentment. This has worked perfectly for us - the safest option has always been clearcut. Neither of us feels the need to dominate decisions about choice of destination, anchorage etc and generally having two minds focussed on problem solving has always helped us arrive at the best decision. It is a system that works extremely well .

I am no bra burning feminist (never thought much of the issue as Germaine Greer seemed to have sorted all of that out while I was growing up ), but I would personally hate to be referred to as 'Admiral'.

[cfarrar]

The boat is owned in partnership, and decisions are based upon a consensus of both partners.

Same, though it's understood that whoever is at the helm acts as skipper and the other as crew when it comes to basic tasks and time-critical decisions.

[Live4boating]

Yeah I figured it out right after I posted. Lol