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Old 01-01-2016, 19:50   #1
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A True Tale of Woe

Scuse me if in the wrong place
Worthy of the telling
I was down on the Marina when I ran into an Irish family who had just purchased a sailing boat abt 36 ft, that they reckoned they were going to sail to the Islands in
She had among 100,s of faults, a very low freeboard, even whilst empty, let alone ready for Departure
She had some wooden boxes, unfastened over the hatches
Anyway they invited me aboar
They had bought the thing(from now on it iks a THING, without advise or survey
Being a long time builder of steel and aluminium yachts they asked me to have a look
I was very kind to them, trying to let them down slowly
Anyways, we lifted the floorboards aft and around the shaft log he started to poke around in the rust with a screwdriver
And yes you guessed it, the driver went through the rusty bottom and in came the sea
That poor family with very young kids had to get all there stuff up onto the dock
The broker who had advertised the boat in a most misleading fashion did not want a bar of it, nor did the previous owner
We pumped after stuffing the hole and then she was hauled
I invited them home and they lived here then flew back to Ireland
They left the boat listed with another broker in Manly QLD
A month later this brokerage rang me, said they had a buyer but nobody in the brokerage knew how to sail
So I went down there, demonstrated the Thing and she was sold
The Irish sent me a thousand despite my not wanting it
The brokerage did not even say thanks
I will always remember the poor woman crying on that dock, the lousy broker and rotten ex owner
Yes it was the mans dumb fault not to get an inspection
But it could all have ended tragically
Happy NY all
Get a survey, pay my fare, the rest is free)
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Old 01-01-2016, 19:57   #2
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Re: A True Tale of Woe

S44, what a sad and disgusting story! I spend some time in t he Manly area, and have lots of friends who buy and sell boats in that area. Would you be willing to send me the name of this blackguard broker (by PM) so that I can help these friends avoid him? they and would thank you.

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Old 01-01-2016, 20:02   #3
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Re: A True Tale of Woe

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Would you be willing to send me the name of this blackguard broker (by PM) so that I can help these friends avoid him? they and would thank you.

Jim
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Old 01-01-2016, 20:54   #4
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Re: A True Tale of Woe

Who was the broker? While its his job to sell and not to hinder sales, it would be good to know of poor after sales service all the same.
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Old 01-01-2016, 22:20   #5
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Re: A True Tale of Woe

ok, I will stand up, it was awhile back now,

And yes tis sickening

I had Nimbus 11 listed there(google Millennium 55 Mummery), my last build, for sale by the man I sold her too, she was right there in front of his office
For sale at 900k and after 3 months he had not even been aboard to look at her, so he was not at all aufait with what he was trying to sell
As for the crowd in Manly I would need look em up, however they did nothing wrong
The industry is full of cowboys
I have had dealing with brokers all over the world and have to say, good experiences in USA,France, but went to view a motor yacht in Holland , relied on pics, when I got there, the pics were 6 years old and there were 100mm oysters on the waterline
In our industry we rely on honesty, good faith
Thanks Men, and Ladies
save you the search
I quit 16 years ago but am thinking of trying again in Portugal, labour is more affordable
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Old 01-01-2016, 23:13   #6
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Re: A True Tale of Woe

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Who was the broker? While its his job to sell and not to hinder sales, it would be good to know of poor after sales service all the same.
But its not his job to mislead, deceive or otherwise hoodwink buyers. Real Estate brokers loose their license for a lot less. And as the OP said, it could have ended in a tragedy. Good on the OP for being a good human being.
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Old 01-01-2016, 23:42   #7
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Re: A True Tale of Woe

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But its not his job to mislead, deceive or otherwise hoodwink buyers. Real Estate brokers loose their license for a lot less. And as the OP said, it could have ended in a tragedy. Good on the OP for being a good human being.
Of course.. Though the broker is not responsible for the seaworthyness of the vessel. Only the ownership. Sadly, the noobies in question knew nothing about the procedures of buying a yacht and should have employed a surveyor in the first place.

I must say my own recent experience with brokers has been questionable. I have found half to be just about right. Some to be extremely pushy and one in particular to be extremely lazy.
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Old 02-01-2016, 00:48   #8
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Re: A True Tale of Woe

Correct me if I am wrong or misinformed but after calling the broker and former owner... "the lousy broker and rotten ex owner", you went ahead and participated in helping to sell a vessel with these kind of problems to a new unsuspecting buyer?
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Old 02-01-2016, 01:05   #9
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Re: A True Tale of Woe

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Correct me if I am wrong or misinformed but after calling the broker and former owner... "the lousy broker and rotten ex owner", you went ahead and participated in helping to sell a vessel with these kind of problems to a new unsuspecting buyer?
No ,
I pointed her faults, Plus she had the bottom repaired and I told the new owner exactly what was needed
I told them that none of the hatches were up to scratch and they paid what they offered
I helped that is all I can say
Also I have just been informed that the broker gave back his commission
I did not make a lot from boatbuilding, but I did make a lot of friends
I was asked to sail the boat, not sell it
I am not here to fight,
If I get that, the forum loses as I do not chit chat, usually just post abt contstruction
Good day to you and yes I did correct you
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Old 02-01-2016, 01:23   #10
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Re: A True Tale of Woe

Was not trying to "fight". Perhaps I hit a nerve. I have built 2 steel's of my own and majorly helped on another. I had a surveyor friend who should have known better and bought a Dutch Alden design built in the 60's. Major problems. He did the same with a screwdriver and had a mini gyser come up. He blasted the bottom and found Swiss cheese. Out of fear, plated over the bad areas rather than remove the cancer.
Unless the bottom is completely strip to bare steel, it is impossible to ascertain if the bottom is free of other trouble spots.
...you have a good day also.
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Old 02-01-2016, 09:28   #11
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Re: A True Tale of Woe

I for one appreciate the OP starting this thread. Too many inexperienced buyer's don't understand how expensive, or even dangerous, a cheap boat can be. It's a common theme on this forum to not buy a fixer upper & always get a survey no matter what the boat's made of. Caveat emptor.
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Old 02-01-2016, 11:54   #12
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Re: A True Tale of Woe

I can relate to this story. In 1969, I had just finished a tour of duty in 'Nam; saved all my money - $12000 with the dream of buying and living on a boat for my last year in the Navy. My only actual sailing experience was in Lightnings and a friend's Tartan 27. Found a 42 foot steel schooner in South Florida. To insure the vessel, one needs a survey. Got a surveyor from a well known agency in South Florida; they sent out a surveyor who, I later found out, had completed his report solely by talking to the previous owner. On the voyage from Fort Lauderdale to Pensacola; the diesel quit off Cape Romano. Brought the boat into Naples, Fl under sail. Problem was that the diesel tank hadn't been flushed out in years. So we did that. Got underway again. Twenty miles later, we went dead in the water; found that, in gear, the prop wasn't turning even though the shaft was turning. We turned into Port St Joe (docked again under sail). I put the transmission in gear, then dove down with mask & flippers and turned the prop. The prop turned easily. I later found out that the previous owner had created a prop shaft with a hollow galvanized plumbing pipe that over time had corroded and finally broke. No way to fix this in Port St Joe. Raised sail again, bound for Pensacola. A Norther was blowing and we were making knots. But the thin, old sails started to tear at the panels and we were constantly repairing them underway. The salt spray seeped into the deck electrical outlets wires were all household/ automobile spec. It was then that I learned the value of tinned marine spec cable. Anyway got to Pensacola, went under the lift bridge under sail and brought her up into the Travel-lift; back-winding the gaff headed fores'l as a brake. Eventually, everything worked out - and then the rust stains started inside and out. Over the ensuing year my wife chipped, Red-Leaded and painted the entire schooner inside and out (no wonder she eventually divorced me - smart girl ! ).

Moral of this saga?

When you buy a boat, get a survey by a qualified ABNS surveyor and check him/her out before hiring. And be present as he/she does the survey with the seller NOT present. And with rare exceptions, avoid boats built in a backyard by an amateur builder.
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Old 02-01-2016, 12:17   #13
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Re: A True Tale of Woe

In all instances of purchasing a used boat it is always "buyer beware" ... particularly if no survey is performed.
Wasn't it Ferenc Mate in his book "From A Bare Hull" ... who suggested taking the 6" steel awl with which the rot was found in a boat, and shove it right up to the hilt into the seller's gut?
A bit of over reaction maybe, but then I believe he was trying to make a point about his opinion of anybody who would knowingly sell an unfit vessel, likely to cause the death of the buyer should he put to sea in said vessel.
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Old 02-01-2016, 12:35   #14
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Re: A True Tale of Woe

Problem is the real NEWBY may not know how or why to use a surveyor.
some times knowledge does not come with money
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Old 02-01-2016, 12:39   #15
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Re: A True Tale of Woe

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celestialsailor View Post
Was not trying to "fight". Perhaps I hit a nerve. I have built 2 steel's of my own and majorly helped on another. I had a surveyor friend who should have known better and bought a Dutch Alden design built in the 60's. Major problems. He did the same with a screwdriver and had a mini gyser come up. He blasted the bottom and found Swiss cheese. Out of fear, plated over the bad areas rather than remove the cancer.
Unless the bottom is completely strip to bare steel, it is impossible to ascertain if the bottom is free of other trouble spots.
...you have a good day also.
Smile ok
Have my own tale when i bought unseen from the best known brokerage in UK
Yes steel thickness and soundness can be tested electronically
On a phone so more later
Sorry be a bit tetchy
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