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TaoJones · 26-05-2009, 15:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by drew23

. . . the past two posts remind me of a quote from a close friend, who quotes one of his university professors:

"The only way to avoid mistakes is experience. The only way to gain experience is to make mistakes. Therefore, I suggest you make as many mistakes as quickly as possible."

I wonder if the quote as you've stated it, Drew, isn't a reflection of how things "evolve" as they are passed along - kind of a version of the old "Telephone" game we played as children. The quote in your post seems derivative of the following, attributed to Tony Robbins:

"Success is the result of good judgment; good judgment is a result of experience; experience is often the result of bad judgment."

TaoJones

Cheechako · 26-05-2009, 15:34

"I'm sorry Dave, I cant do that........"

Robertcateran · 26-05-2009, 20:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by GordMay

Phlebotomy Essentials ~ by Ruth E McCall, Cathee M. Tankersley
Page 78 ➥ Phlebotomy Essentials - Google Book Search

Chlorhexidine Compared with Povidone-Iodine as Skin Preparation before Blood Culture: A Randomized, Controlled Trial
at ➥ Chlorhexidine Compared with Povidone-Iodine as Skin Preparation before Blood Culture: A Randomized, Controlled Trial -- Mimoz et al. 131 (11): 834 -- Annals of Internal Medicine

Found that “contamination occurred in 14 of the 1019 cultures done with chlorhexidine and in 34 of the 1022 cultures done with povidone-iodine. Cleaning the skin with chlorhexidine was therefore somewhat better at preventing contamination.”

Neither of these is a pure halogen and therefore is not particularly relevant. Once a chemical is involved with some other chemical its properties change considerably.eg
I am keeping clear of sea water as it contains large quantities of chlorine.

Seriously, I do have some objection to the use of chlorine bleach as a disinfectant, in that chlorine on carbon ring structures such as tannins, can produce nasties such as dioxins.
As for avoiding drinking water that has been chlorinated, an hour or so exposed to the air and most will have evaporated.
In places with a decent amount of sun, a quick way of sterilising water is to leave it in a plastic bottle in the sun with an occasional vigorous shake.
A traditional way of improving the safety is to add a bit of wine or vinegar to the water, or making a cup of tea.

Starbuck · 26-05-2009, 21:37

All right, Robert: you have a fresh water tank on your boat that you suspect. What would you do?

Robertcateran · 26-05-2009, 21:58

Depends on the source of contamination. If it was a metal salt causing problems, I would try to find the source of the contamination. If it was the tank itself rusting away, I would flush it out with copious quantities of water with a touch of vinegar at the end and try and work out how to replace it.
If it was biological in nature, I would want to know where it was getting its nutrients. fresh water with no sun doesn't breed things too well.
If it came from a contaminated supply, more fool me for not being careful, but I would go for a small separate drinking water supply and just use the contaminated water for cooking and rinsing clothes. It should be OK after a few times of emptying and refilling with clean water

c.spots · 18-01-2012, 16:26

I'm not sure I got the joke about bleach not being effective against anything except HIV - or at least I hope it was a joke, and nobody took it seriously.
Bleach (chlorine and its derivatives) are very effective and generally quite safe. It is however quite corrosive and irritating in higher doses, and the chlorine will evaporate. (Don't use it to clean fiberglass stains.) My concern is that if there is much organic matter in the water, chlorocarbons will be produced and they are carcinogenic. On a small scale we often overdo the dose, since we can't measure accurately.
UV might be a feasible alternative, but I use an ozone generator. It is far less irritating than chlorine, and evaporates more quickly. Besides working faster an better(?) than chlorine, it is also very effective at getting rid of smells and tastes. However, it does not leave any residual protection. Water from one marina in Panama tested safe, but tasted swampy. The ozone got rid of the taste. It also aggregates small particles so that they can be easily be removed by a normal filter.
I had an ozone generator in a hot tub for may years, and the improvement in water quality was amazing.
It can also be used to kill mold, but beware that it can be irritating to breathe and may harm some plastics, with prolonged high exposure.
I have a watermaker, and a large rain catchment awning, so have never taken aboard questionable water.
I was not able to determine an appropriate dose of ozone for drinking water, but it is hard to overdo. It takes very little electricity, and I bubble ozone into each 100 gallon water tank every week or two for an hour. I use a fine bubbler like for aerating a fish tank.
Please be skeptical regarding the health fadists about their medicinal claims about ozone.

Regarding the yellow water. Was the water tank a hot water tank? I found leak in mine, and yellow water.

zeehag · 19-01-2012, 09:26

i love my test system--i treat 2 jerry jugs with vinegar and one with bleach. the two that were treated with vinegar were clean and fresh. the bleach treated one was filthy-- took just 6 months to become so dirty as to be unusable-- complete with more than 4 kinds of molds floating in the water.
i will continue to use vinegar to treat my water, thankyou.

gunkylump · 19-01-2012, 09:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ex-Calif

LOL - This must be the first time in the history of the internet that someone is getting flamed for posting facts.

C'mon Gord - What's wrong with you - How about some usubstantiated opinions for crying out loud? Got any good third hand rumours? How about at least one wild-a$$ guess?

For the newer folks it is widely rumored that Gord has a Cray computer in his basement. My guess is that Gord is a Cray computer.

Oh - regards to the topic. If you can pull the tanks pull them for a good inspection especially as you have stated they are the opaque PVC or something. (That's not a fact BTW - just an opinion - wouldn't want to offend anyone - LOL)

Sorry, can't resist jumping into the fray........I don't think Gord, or his wife are Cray computers.....they both went out of their way to meet Beth and I last fall when we traveled around Lake Superior after putting Kewalo to bed for the winter. We had an awesome "meet and greet" just the four of us.......and unless they are both related to "Data" on Startrek......they are very much human in my opinon...<grin> Right Gord?

gunk

capn_billl · 19-01-2012, 10:25

Both Iodine, and Chlorine are Halogens. Iodine is used in less biological functions than chlorine. The sodium chlorine ions are basic in the operation of a cells osmotic membranes.

Disruption in the operation of this membrane will quickly cause a single cell organism to either absorb water until it's membrane splits, or starve it's ability to absorb nutrients. Different types of organisms differ in their ability to adjust in changes to chlorine levels in the enviroment.

There are several types of cystes, as well as some spore forming bacteria that are resistant to chlorines oxidation effects as well as alchohols also membrane disruting effects. Vinegar producing bacteria live on alchohol.

Zeehag is correct, most hospitals have gone to using more complex disinfectants.

One disadvantage of chlorine is it evaporates quickly, reacts with neutralizing agents, like calcium, and sodium, (which are common in natural water sources), to form harmless salts, (sodium choride, and calcium chloride).

Your body uses hydrochloric acid to digest food, yet a number of bacteria live happily in this enviroment, (both good bacteria that secrete enzymes to help digest, and bad bacteria that secrete amonia compounds that protect them, and eat holes in your stomach).

There are more effective sterilising agents, but they are not cheap, and you would not want to drink them.

**Ex-Calif** · 19-01-2012, 16:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunkylump

Sorry, can't resist jumping into the fray........I don't think Gord, or his wife are Cray computers.....they both went out of their way to meet Beth and I last fall when we traveled around Lake Superior after putting Kewalo to bed for the winter. We had an awesome "meet and greet" just the four of us.......and unless they are both related to "Data" on Startrek......they are very much human in my opinon...<grin> Right Gord?

gunk

Gord cant come to the forum right now. He needs his power cord plugged back in.