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zeehag · 24-05-2009, 10:13

FOUND YELLOW WATER IN THE HOT WATER HEATER I REMOVED FROM MY FORMOSA---I REFUSE TO USE THOSE EVIL CREATIONS AS THEY ALWAYS LEAK FROM A CORNER--THE ONES WITH WHICH I GHAVE BEEN INFLICTED REPEATEDLY WERE THE SQUARE KIND--SOME GALVANIZED AND ONE OF STAINLESS STEEL....I THREW IT ALLLL AWAY---AND FIGGERED THE ALGAE GREW IN THE STANDING WATER, AS I REFUSE TO USE THESE CONTRAPTIONS....LOL......BUT MY REGULAR TANKS ARE REPEATEDLY USED---SO NO STANDING WATER FOR ANY LENGTH OF TIME...I ALSO REFUSE TO USE BLEACH IN MY TANKS UNLESS I ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO USE IT FOR CLEANING AN EMPTY TANK AND MAKING CERTAIN THEY ARE DRY BEFORE USING---....I DRINK PURIFIED WATER AND AM IN PROCESS OF ADDING FILTERS AND SUCH TO MY FORMOSA......CHLORINE ONLY KILLS HIV.....MAKES EVERYTHING ELSE JUST WHITER.....SO THE DIRT IS CLEAN LOOKING.....BE SAFE...PS---ALCOHOL DOES NOT KILL BACTERIA--JUST MOVES THEM AROUND.....PS--I am a nurse with a good understanding of bacteria and their friends the viruses.....nothing kills most of them anymore because of the ineffecive overuse of the cillins--penicillin and its cousins....

Starbuck · 24-05-2009, 13:42

Quote:

......CHLORINE ONLY KILLS HIV.....MAKES EVERYTHING ELSE JUST WHITER.....

zeehag, I don't question your qualifications, but at best, this is awkwardly expressed; at worst, it's innacurate.

Perhaps you meant to maintain that chlorine is the only agent that kills HIV. The truth or falsity of that premise is beyond my ken, but at first read, that's what your statement suggests, along with the idea that chlorine is not an effective anti-bacterial agent.

Chlorine has been used for over 150 years as an oxidizing agent in drinking water, does the lion's share of combating algal growth in public swimming pools, not to mention sanitizes all of my brewing equipment quite nicely. I believe I read it functions by rupturing cell walls, but I'm no scientist, and my memory is not certain.

The development of cillin-resistant bacteria is well-understood. But as for chlorine, I don't know of any evidence, or even claim, that this highly reactive halogen is losing its effectiveness.

If you don't want to drink chlorinated water (and that seems to be implicit in your post) more power to you, but it's not accurate to claim that chlorine doesn't work.

As for alcohol not killing bacteria, but rather just "moving them around," well, no, it won't kill bacteria on contact. But when enough has permeated through the cell wall to denature the cell's proteins, metabolism is interrupted (the organism dies). As with chlorine, length of contact is an important factor.

Fair Winds,
Jeff

unbusted67 · 24-05-2009, 13:50

I'm thinking pee.

Are your engines fresh water cooled? Could it be coolant?

zeehag · 24-05-2009, 15:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainJeff

zeehag, I don't question your qualifications, but at best, this is awkwardly expressed; at worst, it's innacurate.

Perhaps you meant to maintain that chlorine is the only agent that kills HIV. The truth or falsity of that premise is beyond my ken, but at first read, that's what your statement suggests, along with the idea that chlorine is not an effective anti-bacterial agent.

Chlorine has been used for over 150 years as an oxidizing agent in drinking water, does the lion's share of combating algal growth in public swimming pools, not to mention sanitizes all of my brewing equipment quite nicely. I believe I read it functions by rupturing cell walls, but I'm no scientist, and my memory is not certain.

The development of cillin-resistant bacteria is well-understood. But as for chlorine, I don't know of any evidence, or even claim, that this highly reactive halogen is losing its effectiveness.

If you don't want to drink chlorinated water (and that seems to be implicit in your post) more power to you, but it's not accurate to claim that chlorine doesn't work.

As for alcohol not killing bacteria, but rather just "moving them around," well, no, it won't kill bacteria on contact. But when enough has permeated through the cell wall to denature the cell's proteins, metabolism is interrupted (the organism dies). As with chlorine, length of contact is an important factor.

Fair Winds,
Jeff

i am glad you trust the chlorination by bleach for killing that which you acquire in your tanks. i will not sail with you. i will not trust bleach to kill anything but hiv, which is a very fragile virus, and not much is needed to kill that , as tap water kills it. so does 10 mins in air....lol---do you REALLY believe the bacteria and viruses we have today are truly dead from chlorinating pools?? is that why most folks wearing their pool water ridden bathing suits find themselves victim of urinary tract infections and "boils" caused by bacteria??? the acid put into pool water kills more bacteria than does the chlorine.but neither does an effective job of it anymore... get real, sir---there is not much anymore that BLEACH, aka chlorine, KILLS..is why it is not used asa a cleaning agent in hospitals.....do better research.....or find yourself victim along with the rest of the ones who trust bleach and the govt....lol....happy sailing....as for alcohol--it just kills people---the alcohol used to allegedly kill bacteria doesnt kill anything---is not recommended for use before drawing blood cultures as it is ineffective--betadine is used in its place because the iodine kills some bacteria ....look up your studies --i was part and party to many when i ran a post anes care unit in a lost angeles hospital....gooood luck and stay healthy.........

Bash · 24-05-2009, 17:26

It's an old trick: some people add unsweetened lemon Kool Aid to their water tanks to take out the plastic taste. One pack of Kool Aid for a 50 gallon tank is the usual formula.

Could be that the previous owners knew this trick?

**GordMay** · 25-05-2009, 04:51

The unsupported opinion, that “CHLORINE ONLY KILLS HIV.....MAKES EVERYTHING ELSE JUST WHITER.....SO THE DIRT IS CLEAN LOOKING.....BE SAFE...PS---ALCOHOL DOES NOT KILL BACTERIA--JUST MOVES THEM AROUND”, runs counter to all professional advice regarding disinfection; and demonstrates rejection of widely published information, curious for one claiming to be “a nurse with a good understanding of bacteria and their friends the viruses”.

scotte · 25-05-2009, 07:27

Here's what the scientists have to say on the topic: How does chlorine added to drinking water kill bacteria and other harmful organisms? Why doesn't it harm us?: Scientific American

Starbuck · 25-05-2009, 14:26

Drew, I definitely think moving the hose around loosened something up, and my bet is some kind of oxidation of metal somewhere. Time to take all the hoses off, inspect, maybe replace, get a good general look around, and scrub/flush according to the recommendations in this thread. Don't forget to run the super-chlorinated (bleached) water up through the hosing to the faucets & let it sit a while.

zeehag, thank you for turning off the Cap-lock. I wrote a long reply to you, but I've edited it down to its essence: since the burden of proof lies on the shoulders of the claimant, being dismissed to go study up isn't impressing me. Bring in any reputable source you want. I'm ready to be convinced that standard chlorination is losing its effectiveness. Anecdotal support isn't going to persuade.

In the meantime, would you mind answering a few more personal questions?
1) What do you use to ensure safe drinking water onboard & at home. You seem to be promoting filtering. (At least this part is directly sailing-related). Have you switched to iodine? UV?

2) If you don't trust chlorinated water, do you think it not healthy to ingest any at all (don't want to characterize you unfairly, but this is the conclusion I'm driven to at the moment)? Brushing your teeth, the odd swallow in the shower? No salads or iced drinks in restaurants? Can you clarify here, please? Just how distrusting of San Diego tap water are you?

Sorry for the thread-drift, folks, but this is fascinating.

**GordMay** · 26-05-2009, 02:29

Phlebotomy Essentials ~ by Ruth E McCall, Cathee M. Tankersley
Page 78 ➥ Phlebotomy Essentials - Google Book Search

Chlorhexidine Compared with Povidone-Iodine as Skin Preparation before Blood Culture: A Randomized, Controlled Trial
at ➥ Chlorhexidine Compared with Povidone-Iodine as Skin Preparation before Blood Culture: A Randomized, Controlled Trial -- Mimoz et al. 131 (11): 834 -- Annals of Internal Medicine

Found that “contamination occurred in 14 of the 1019 cultures done with chlorhexidine and in 34 of the 1022 cultures done with povidone-iodine. Cleaning the skin with chlorhexidine was therefore somewhat better at preventing contamination.”

Artful Dodger · 26-05-2009, 02:46

I'm not meaning to be rude, but my thoughts are wondering, all I ever see posted any time by Gord May are facts, do you have any personal views or experience, facts are good, but life experience is a better teacher, so I'm told. Is there a story here that isn't being told.

**Ex-Calif** · 26-05-2009, 05:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Artful Dodger

I'm not meaning to be rude, but my thoughts are wondering, all I ever see posted any time by Gord May are facts, do you have any personal views or experience, facts are good, but life experience is a better teacher, so I'm told. Is there a story here that isn't being told.

LOL - This must be the first time in the history of the internet that someone is getting flamed for posting facts.

C'mon Gord - What's wrong with you - How about some usubstantiated opinions for crying out loud? Got any good third hand rumours? How about at least one wild-a$$ guess?

For the newer folks it is widely rumored that Gord has a Cray computer in his basement. My guess is that Gord is a Cray computer.

Oh - regards to the topic. If you can pull the tanks pull them for a good inspection especially as you have stated they are the opaque PVC or something. (That's not a fact BTW - just an opinion - wouldn't want to offend anyone - LOL)

**GordMay** · 26-05-2009, 07:34

Thanks for the defence Dan; but it looks like The Artful Dodger has outed me.

Whilst I pretend to be an elderly, self-educated didact of moderate intelligence, and considerable experience & learning, in construction & engineering, and cruising & repairing boats - I am actually a phenomenally intelligent adolescent, with extraordinary theoretical knowledge (book learning), but relatively* little actual life experience.

Eventually, when I acquire some, experience will be a wonderful thing; enabling me to recognise mistakes, when others repeatedly make them. My knowledge will mitigate against my making them.

* Relativity: Two hairs in my soup is too much; whereas two hairs on head is too little.

I wonder whether the Dodger's thoughts might actually wandering.

Bash · 26-05-2009, 07:59

Mr. May, please stop confusing us with facts. They make our minds wander. This being the internet, we're much more comfortable with unfounded opinions and speculative guesswork. In the future, we'd appreciate you turning your attention to fruitless discussions where there are no objective answers, such as whether any of the more popular lines of production boats should be considered "bluewater boats."
Sincerely,
All the Cruisers.

farotherside · 26-05-2009, 10:49

heh! love it.

Thanks so much for all the opinions (and facts), the wisdom is appreciated.

the past two posts remind me of a quote from a close friend, who quotes one of his university professors:

"The only way to avoid mistakes is experience. The only way to gain experience is to make mistakes. Therefore, I suggest you make as many mistakes as quickly as possible."

nothing like jumping in with both feet. this morning, in the pouring rain, I'm discovering the mistakes I made when "repairing" the leaks in the deck roof last week...