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Old 24-05-2011, 19:46   #61
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Another vote for Black Box. But I use bottles first and save the bladder wine for emergencies. Yes drinking from crystal improves any wine. I homebrew beer and rack it into Champagne bottles.

I brought wine on the airlines back from Italy. If they withstand the gorillas that toss bags for the airlines, they can take the roughest voyage. As for natural cork, there are some excellent screwtops out there too.
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Old 24-05-2011, 20:44   #62
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Re: Wine

We keep a few bottles aboard to bring if we are invited for a meal or have guests for a meal, our daily wine is usually boxed. Black Box Cab or a nice boxed Spanish red called SEVEN. When my wife drinks white she likes the Franzia box Chardonay, good and very inexpensive.
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Old 25-05-2011, 07:58   #63
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Re: Wine

Unbeatable argument against wine in a cardboard box..........!!

HOW WILL YOU SEND A DISTRESS MESSAGE IF YOU DON'T HAVE A BOTTLE TO PUT IT IN !!! AHHHHHHHHHH????
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Old 25-05-2011, 08:24   #64
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Re: Wine

Alecadi - have you left the dock yet? When we did, 4.5 years ago, we took our wine cellar with us. Initially it was wonderful to reach under the port bunk and pull out something very nice to have with dinner. But we found that between the heat of the tropics and pounding to windward or rolling downwind, our favorite wines degraded quickly. That made us very sad. We learned to leave the good stuff at home or at the vineyard and keep our bilges full of plonk (we left NZ w/ 11 cases, SA w/ 8 - had to leave enough room for rum in the Caribe).

I know a lot of cruisers swear by wine in bladders (cardboard boxes left at the dock). But wine degrades very quickly in those bladders. I can't count the number of times I've been served corked wine (can you even call it corked if it comes out of a plastic bag?) on other boats. So unless it is going to be drunk with/in a month or two, bottles are a better bet.

In 35,000 miles we never broke a bottle of wine. For bottle storage I recommend using non-skid shelf liner to line the bottom of lockers. And then just wedge enough bottles in there so that they can't move around. Socks just take up too much valuable room.

Once you start emptying that locker, stuff something in there to take up the room. Eventually, when your stocks get low, say after 3 months in Chagos, you'll need to use something between the bottles to keep them from moving around. Again, I prefer the non-skid shelf liner for this application.
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Old 25-05-2011, 08:37   #65
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Re: Wine

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On Liberty (and even back at home before cruising) we drink a lot of Black Box cab and shiraz. We're not merlot drinkers but the Black Box merlot we tried once was good. Black Box goes for around $18 at Sam's/WalMart/discount outlets, up to $22 or $23 at liquor stores, grocery stores, etc.

We also like Fisheye shiraz, about $14-17...
Thanks for the recommendation. Seems that Black Box gets the nod from quite a few here. It's not available here, of course, so I'll give it a try on our next visit to the States.

In deference to Alecadi, I'll have to admit that my strong preference is for bottled wine poured into proper glasses, but I'm not afraid to try something new.
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Old 25-05-2011, 09:25   #66
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Re: Wine

Then we drink the boxed stuff first, and then move to the bottles :-) Boxed is also good for cooking !! and you don't have too worry about finishing all of it in one sitting. I usually can't finish the third bottle, so it is a shame to waste it. Boxed allows you to drink your limit and not waste the leftover ;-)
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Old 25-05-2011, 10:50   #67
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Re: Wine

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Black Box. And I don't work for them.
Agreed. All of the Black Box wines are well worth the price. I would also say that Franzia's Chianti (when you can find it) is a very good value for the dollar. I tried Franzia's "Red Chillable" once and literally had to spit it out. BLECCH! Their Merlot is not awful, but I won't buy it.
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Old 25-05-2011, 11:01   #68
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Re: Wine

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But wine degrades very quickly in those bladders.
Actually, wine keeps better and longer in the bladders... With two exceptions:

1. Do not EVER store the bladder in a way that it is exposed to light.
2. Once you start using it you need to be sure that you do not let air in as the wine comes out.

The second one there is the fatal mistake that a lot of people make. You wouldn't leave a bottle of wine sitting open for three or four days and expect it to be any good, but a lot of box-wine users do not seem to realize that letting air into the bag, and storing it that way, is the same thing. If you carefully keep air out of the bladder, the wine will last just as long as any wine in a bottle.

In fact, if you are not inclined to finish an entire bottle at a time, then wine in a bladder is far better, since you only expose the amount you intend to drink to the air. Open the best bottle of wine, drink two or three glasses, stick the cork back in as best you can, put it on the shelf, and come back to drink it 2-3 days later and it will NOT be the same wine, and will almost certainly NOT be very good. 2-3 glasses from a box wine and then put it on the shelf for a few days, though, no problem.
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Old 25-05-2011, 11:10   #69
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Re: Wine

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............In fact, if you are not inclined to finish an entire bottle at a time,........
I really have difficulty to apprehend that concept..........
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Old 25-05-2011, 11:12   #70
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Re: Wine

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She likes the new plastic corks.
Lot of resistance from traditionalists when the plastic corks first appeared on the scene. The plain, undeniable fact of the matter, though, is that they seal better and keep longer. They are better for the wine, and therefore better for the wine drinker. People who continue to insist on real corks are simply doing themselves and their wines a disservice, and deluding themselves into thinking it is "better" just because it is "traditional."
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Old 25-05-2011, 11:15   #71
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Re: Wine

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Lot of resistance from traditionalists when the plastic corks first appeared on the scene. The plain, undeniable fact of the matter, though, is that they seal better and keep longer. They are better for the wine, and therefore better for the wine drinker. People who continue to insist on real corks are simply doing themselves and their wines a disservice, and deluding themselves into thinking it is "better" just because it is "traditional."
The new synthetic corks are wonderfull and much better than the old naturall one for a perfect conservation of the wine IMHO.
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Old 25-05-2011, 11:15   #72
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Re: Wine

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Lot of resistance from traditionalists when the plastic corks first appeared on the scene. The plain, undeniable fact of the matter, though, is that they seal better and keep longer. They are better for the wine, and therefore better for the wine drinker. People who continue to insist on real corks are simply doing themselves and their wines a disservice, and deluding themselves into thinking it is "better" just because it is "traditional."
Same thing with the screw caps. People went nuts.
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Old 25-05-2011, 12:13   #73
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Re: Wine

You can try the CO2 systems that replaces air in the bottle - keeps the wine good for a lot longer.
Actually some better wines are coming with screw caps - protects the wine with a better seal - no bad corks
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Old 25-05-2011, 12:55   #74
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Re: Wine

Cork taint from bad corks is caused by trichloroanisole. Plastic 'corks', boxed wines, and screw caps eliminate this source of contamination, but on the downside do not allow oxygen exchange which helps bottled wine to age and mature. As was suggested some posts earlier, the wine from plastic bladders, screw top bottles or bottles using plastic stoppers should be decanted and allowed to breath for a while before serving.

Cork stoppers are making a comeback though now that the major cork suppliers have found a way to remove most of the offending trichloroanisole.
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Old 25-05-2011, 12:59   #75
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Re: Wine

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Actually, wine keeps better and longer in the bladders... With two exceptions:

1. Do not EVER store the bladder in a way that it is exposed to light.
2. Once you start using it you need to be sure that you do not let air in as the wine comes out.
1 - not a lot of light in our bilge
2 - the 8 bladders that we had to dispose of were not opened until the first time we tried them, a few months after purchase, and discovered that they had all gone off (two different varieties of white and one red)

I know other people who are very happy with boxed wines. It just didn't work out for us on a boat. At home I keep a Black Box cab around for making sauces, so it isn't that I am against boxed wines (I also prefer screwcaps to real corks - tho I do hate those plastic corks). I just feel that bottles stand up better to the rigors of voyaging than bladders.
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