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Old 17-06-2013, 10:00   #31
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Re: What food to buy without refrigeration?

I'm also new to this no refrigator lifestyle and slowly I'm discovering things that keep well.

1. I buy small onions or potatoes so I can use all of it in the meal, not needing to resell it & ref it.
2. I have found a meat place at the local farmers market that sells a few types of pork sausage that I can hang in the cabin for months in a paper bag ( keeps bugs out )
3. Eat a lot of granola, nuts, breads, pasta, fruit, and some veg's. It seems that veg's won't last but a few days if I'm lucky.
4. Fresh eggs placed in water glass last for 6 months easily
5. Beans!

We hang our food in nets to allow air to circulate and it makes it easier to find.
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Old 08-07-2013, 02:19   #32
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Re: What food to buy without refrigeration?

I can't speak to the blue water folks, but we just did 5 days w/ no refer and produced nearly ZERO trash (what do you folks do with all the cans & MRE packaging and whatnot ???)
Packed inn "rubbermaid" airtight plastic containers & "Hippe Tupperware" (i.e. re-cycled yogurt containers):
Toor Dal & Masoor Dal (that's 2 kinds of pea / lentil like things)
Basmati rice
farina
oat meal
coco powder
honey
jaggery sugar
tapioca
almond milk cartons (1 qt.)
felafel powder
veggie burger mix
olive oil
coconut oil
ghee (home made fresh)
tortillas (ate these first)
corn chips
ak mak crackers
gruyere (hard swiss cave-aged cheese)
LOTS of spices to keep things fun
LOTS of teas - herbal, chai, black
garlic, onion, avocados, potatoes, yams, LOTS of veggies, LOTS of fruit (packed carefully in re-usable containers with towels or whatnot for padding).

Am so happy to say it is very possible to eat healthy delicious meals w/ no refer and not make much trash from elaborate "package foods" & cans.

BTW keeping mayo w/ no refer is just plain wrong. Real mayo (made fresh) will go bad in a couple days in a home refer. If your mayo lasts 6 months you are eating some other bizarre preservative sh*t which is not real mayo. Beans & rice are SAFE. Stick to that ...
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Old 08-07-2013, 02:54   #33
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Re: What food to buy without refrigeration?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NatKat View Post
I can't speak to the blue water folks, but we just did 5 days w/ no refer and produced nearly ZERO trash (what do you folks do with all the cans & MRE packaging and whatnot ???)
Packed inn "rubbermaid" airtight plastic containers & "Hippe Tupperware" (i.e. re-cycled yogurt containers):
Toor Dal & Masoor Dal (that's 2 kinds of pea / lentil like things)
Basmati rice
farina
oat meal
coco powder
honey
jaggery sugar
tapioca
almond milk cartons (1 qt.)
felafel powder
veggie burger mix
olive oil
coconut oil
ghee (home made fresh)
tortillas (ate these first)
corn chips
ak mak crackers
gruyere (hard swiss cave-aged cheese)
LOTS of spices to keep things fun
LOTS of teas - herbal, chai, black
garlic, onion, avocados, potatoes, yams, LOTS of veggies, LOTS of fruit (packed carefully in re-usable containers with towels or whatnot for padding).

Am so happy to say it is very possible to eat healthy delicious meals w/ no refer and not make much trash from elaborate "package foods" & cans.

BTW keeping mayo w/ no refer is just plain wrong. Real mayo (made fresh) will go bad in a couple days in a home refer. If your mayo lasts 6 months you are eating some other bizarre preservative sh*t which is not real mayo. Beans & rice are SAFE. Stick to that ...

NOPE. "Real" mayo also does not go bad. My MIL was French, made her own mayo, and kept it in a kitchen cabinet. I've eaten it many times that way and never gotten sick. Even my small children did not get sick.

It's a widely held assumption, but not true. The only additive in Helmann's mayonnaise, the brand I typically use, does nothing to kill bacteria. It prevents discoloration. One can argue whether its consumption is a good idea or not, but it isn't there to kill bacteria.

I'm not going to play this game again. People who want to believe mayo will kill you want to believe they know something important about preventing food poisoning. Personally, I believed that when living without a refrigerator it was really important to have accurate information.

There ARE natural preservatives. Many here have named them.

In port, I do much like the Europeans often do -- only shopping for a couple of days at a time. Going on a longer cruise, I used dry ice to turn bags of ice into blocks of ice, the best solution *for me* because of my badly placed and strangely shaped ice box. Then I put dry ice on top of the blocks of ice (Co2 is heavy and sinks, so on top of the block ice is best). Then I had a barrier so food would not stick to the dry ice.

Fresh milk is sold in sealed cartons 8 oz per container as well as by the quart. I'm told it's better to stock up on it in the US like so many things it's more expensive in the islands.

Food left out of refrigeration overnight can be safely consumed the next day IF you reheat it thoroughly (an MD pathologist proved this to me decades ago before I started sailing). This was how Europeans lived for centuries. This was the origin of the nursery rhyme -- peas porridge hot, peas porridge cold, etc.
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Old 08-07-2013, 03:22   #34
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Agree w Raku, the wifey read that mayo really only goes bad if you cross contaminate a knife or fork w other stuff on it into the mayo. We have been using rhe same mayo For 7 weeks w no refer and no problems.
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Old 08-07-2013, 03:46   #35
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Re: What food to buy without refrigeration?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NatKat View Post
I can't speak to the blue water folks, but we just did 5 days w/ no refer and produced nearly ZERO trash (what do you folks do with all the cans & MRE packaging and whatnot ???)
I think what you mean is that you left the packaging on shore before you set off, not that you produced almost zero waste...


Onno
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Old 08-07-2013, 03:58   #36
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Re: What food to buy without refrigeration?

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Originally Posted by Dulcesuenos View Post
Agree w Raku, the wifey read that mayo really only goes bad if you cross contaminate a knife or fork w other stuff on it into the mayo. We have been using rhe same mayo For 7 weeks w no refer and no problems.

That's right. the problem is cross-contamination.

THAT is a serious issue, and not just with mayonnaise. It is harder to *really* wash your dishes and *really* clean your counters and cutting boards. It is particularly important to have a different cutting board for chicken alone -- no beef, no veggies, no fruit.

I don't like using plastic, but I use plastic forks, spoons and knives when working with mayonnaise. No utensil goes in that jar twice. I've been using the same jar of mayonnaise for seven MONTHS doing that.

It is a concept that some simply will never accept, but the addition of mayo on your boat makes tuna salad and chicken salad possible.

One problem I have with this is that I really dislike beans. I would not survive on a boat with a vegetarian or vegan-based diet. Just wouldn't happen.

No one mentioned peanut butter. I love it, and it doesn't go bad. The thing you have to watch out for is jelly. The mold that grows on jelly is quite carcinogenic, and it should be pitched at the *slightest* sign of mold. don't scoop off the moldy top. Pitch the jar.
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Old 08-07-2013, 03:59   #37
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Re: What food to buy without refrigeration?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzyO View Post
I think what you mean is that you left the packaging on shore before you set off, not that you produced almost zero waste...


Onno

I don't use many cans, and NO "mre's."
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Old 08-07-2013, 06:01   #38
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Re: What food to buy without refrigeration?

REAL mayo contains uncooked eggs....YES IT DOES GO BAD --- but there are preservatives in it to make it last 2 weeks in tropical conditions and 4 weeks in san diego winters.

others have tried to prove otherwise, but it was at the expense of others who DEFINITELY were made ILL from the food prepared by the individual claiming it was not bad...rodlmao...that female used to be a chef in antigua, well writtten about in cruising world, 1989. bad choice using old real mayo...
find a GOOOD physician who knows food poisoning well....rodlmao.

and it doesnt matter how many times th e spoon goes into the jar--isnt the utensils, is the fresh uncooked EGGS in mayo...ever get salmonella?? you wll....is just a matter of time...lol...i use smallest jars and they only last 2 uses...that is less than a 2 week longevity.

as for cleaning cutting boards--that , even with bad thumbs, is easily done with cleaning agents and water...mebbe even a sponge with a 3m pad on back of it..lol...

real pb does go bad--ever find mold in your pb???? if not, you eat jif or skippy or peter pan with a crisco base...lol aint real pb.fresh (the only kind) pb does not have preservatives--i had to throw a jar full of moldy pb out--i saved the glass jar to use for real butter....btw--crabs and lobsters eat old moldy pb as do fishies.

mebbe those folks burned theor cardboard and paper trash in bbq....

catch and eat fish.
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Old 08-07-2013, 06:25   #39
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Re: What food to buy without refrigeration?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeehag View Post
REAL mayo contains uncooked eggs....YES IT DOES GO BAD --- but there are preservatives in it to make it last 2 weeks in tropical conditions and 4 weeks in san diego winters.

others have tried to prove otherwise, but it was at the expense of others who DEFINITELY were made ILL from the food prepared by the individual claiming it was not bad...rodlmao...that female used to be a chef in antigua, well writtten about in cruising world, 1989. bad choice using old real mayo...
find a GOOOD physician who knows food poisoning well....rodlmao.

and it doesnt matter how many times th e spoon goes into the jar--isnt the utensils, is the fresh uncooked EGGS in mayo...ever get salmonella?? you wll....is just a matter of time...lol...i use smallest jars and they only last 2 uses...that is less than a 2 week longevity.

as for cleaning cutting boards--that , even with bad thumbs, is easily done with cleaning agents and water...mebbe even a sponge with a 3m pad on back of it..lol...

real pb does go bad--ever find mold in your pb???? if not, you eat jif or skippy or peter pan with a crisco base...lol aint real pb.fresh (the only kind) pb does not have preservatives--i had to throw a jar full of moldy pb out--i saved the glass jar to use for real butter....btw--crabs and lobsters eat old moldy pb as do fishies.

mebbe those folks burned theor cardboard and paper trash in bbq....

catch and eat fish.

In my mayo, the only extra ingredient keeps it from discoloring. Without that (what my MIL used) the surface will turn yellow but it still WILL NOT MAKE YOU SICK. Zeehag is convinced but mistaken.

This has been explained before. Put stuff IN mayonnaise and leave it out it will go bad - but it would go bad anyway. The mayo gets blamed, which is why the 'keep refrigerated' is on the label ... because so many people, not just Zeehag, believe this about mayo.

Just because someone is a chef does not mean he or she is misinformed regarding something about some food.

I have had food poisoning twice -- once from Greek food and once from Chinese food. There was no mayo in any of that food.

I have had this jar of may -- OUT -- in Florida -- for seven months. I ate a ham and cheese sandwich made with mayo from that jar four days ago and did not get sick, and it hasn't spent a day in my tiny fridge.

JELLY needs to be refrigerated or in warm weather it will develop a dangerous mold. Far more worrisome than mayonnaise.

Most people believe what they want to believe. If I had not been confronted by my MIL (and I could see that the jar was 2/3 used up) I would still believe that mayo had to be refrigerated.

BTW, I would say that a pathologist is a "good doctor." They have more knowledge about ... well ... pathogens ... than the great majority of other medical professionals.

I've never had pb go bad, and I've never it grow mold. I'm only 67, so I suppose there's still time, but we never kept it in the fridge. We had it separate and have some of the oil seep out when I was a child before AC in NJ heat waves.

And, my pb is real, not imaginary. What you mean is "all natural." Eat what you want. Do what you want.
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Old 08-07-2013, 06:45   #40
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Re: What food to buy without refrigeration?

PS -- don't count on a 3-M sponge and elbow grease to get a cutting board clean -- ask any chef in a restaurant open to the publice would happen to them if the Board of Health found out they were doing that.

What THEY do is keep the chicken separate from the other food in every way possible, because salmonella is incredibly common in chickens. Still scrub it really well using bleach, because you don't want to contaminate one chicken with another.

Or don't. Count on a scrubby but don't be surprised if you and/or your guests get sick.
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Old 08-07-2013, 19:36   #41
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Re: What food to buy without refrigeration?

@ JazzyO vis a vis (nearly) ZERO TRASH: I buy dry goods like oat meal, rice, lentils from BULK BINS or large bags at Indian market. Use few canned goods.
Olive oil I bring my oil bottle to the store and buy it from a big cask - they sell by weight and weigh my containers first. So one need not make loads of trash on land either. LOL on the boat it actually hurts me to "trash" food scraps as I feed these to our chickens on dry land!
Generally speaking unprocessed and unpackaged foods produce less garbage by either land or sea. Your mileage may vary.

Vis a vis the MAYO WARS:
I have thrown away a lot of "suspect" mayo in my life. When I went to cooking school we learned that bad mayo could make people deathly ill. I prefer to be SAFE not risk food poisoning in some out-of-the-way anchorage with nearest doctor 30 miles or whatnot.
Not saying the French MIL is wrong ... god knows I never argue with French people about mayonnaise ... they invented it ... just saying I would rather play it SAFE with food poisoning risk at sea. I would hate to make myself or anyone else sick with accidentally contaminated mayo. Cold water washing doesn't sanitize utensils as hot water ... more risk unless your boat has very hot wash water and you can "police" other people's mayo usage to make sure they don't contaminate it.

Forgive me for saying ... but the "tubes" of mayo just freak me out even tho they are supposed to be safe for boating ... chacun a son gout (as the French would say)

cheers,
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Old 08-07-2013, 20:17   #42
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Re: What food to buy without refrigeration?

Why not forgo mayo all together? Its not important is it?
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Old 08-07-2013, 21:10   #43
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Re: What food to buy without refrigeration?

there are only a select few items that need mayo....tuna salad, blts, mebbe artichokes ..and i dont know any others..i like tuna--is excellent when made with fresh fish i catch while cruising. ....
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Old 08-07-2013, 21:49   #44
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Just two additions

1). Make ur own mayo as needed (eggs and oil with a whisk)
2) we use our dehydrator a LOT before sailing... Go to a farmers market,stock up, then dry them, vacuum bag them, and enjoy for weeks
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Old 08-07-2013, 21:53   #45
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Re: What food to buy without refrigeration?

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Why not forgo mayo all together? Its not important is it?

I really like tuna salad and chicken salad. I can survive chicken salad made from canned chicken, but not without mayo.

I don't like dry sandwiches, and I don't like mustard ...

I don't eat tons of mayo (hence why the jar has lasted so long).

I understand people's fears about it. I know it's not true, but I understand people have really been indoctrinated on this one.

In short, I understand why, once some clever French person made the first mayonnaise, the notion spread. Yum.
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