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Old 04-10-2015, 22:09   #91
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Re: What are essential foods to bring?

Today I got:

Four boxes of natures path "pop tarts"
Three bags or whole grain pancake mix
A LOT of fruit and vegetable leathers
Brags amino acids
Maple syrup
Cookies
8 bars chocolate
Two packs shortbread cookies

A little at a time. Stuff that won't spoil..
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Old 04-10-2015, 23:34   #92
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Re: What are essential foods to bring?

FWIW:

There is lots of talk about carrying supplies of fuel, and how one can store lots of alcohol more readily than lots of propane.

The facts: Methyl alcohol has 57,250 BTU/gallon, propane has 84,250 BTU/gallon. That is, the energy content of propane is ~1.5 times greater than methanol on a volumetric basis. LPG is somewhat less dense than metho, but the storage containers are heavier, so weight wise its a wash.

Thus Ms Watson, had she carried an equal amount of propane, could have gone around another one and one half times (not that this really matters!). She was a hard working solo voyager, and I dunno how much she really cooked. Ann and I eat well, she bakes bread, we have a lot of "cuppas" ourselves and with friends... and a 9 kg propane tank averages 12 weeks for us, year in and year out.

It is true that one can store alcohol in small plastic jars, just as it comes from the hardware store, but I'm leery of storing volatile fuels thusly, and any weight advantage disappears when you must decant the alcohol into sturdier tanks for storage.

The necessity for a well designed LPG storage locker is well recognized, and that is somewhat more of an exercise than simply designing an alcohol storage tank... no argument there! And it is true that the Origo stoves seem to be less expensive than typical marine LPG stoves... but those more expensive stoves usually include a thermostatically controlled oven and a broiler which are good to have.

Finally, in our years of cruising in the Island Pacific, LPG availability has grown greatly, while kerosene is disappearing, and alcohol has always been scarce in remote villages. If any commercial fuel is used in village life, nowadays it is likely to be LPG... usually in the form of "swap bottles" which necessitates gravity transfer to y our LPG tank, and that can be a PITA, but it can be done. We've spent the odd afternoon sitting in the shade of the tree from which the swap bottle is hanging, slowly disgorging its contents into our somewhat rusty tanks.

There are lots of folks for whom the Origo stoves seem to work very well, and I'm happy for them. For our type of cruising and cooking, the LPG has been a good choice.

YMMV.

Jim
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Old 05-10-2015, 04:05   #93
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Re: What are essential foods to bring?

I am trying to follow this and add something useful. I carry a crab cooker, not only for the abundant crab we have up here but also to boil lots of water fast. I use it on deck. Also fill my 5 gallon bucket with seawater and do first dish cleaning in that and dump overboard. Used to cooking for six people.
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Old 05-10-2015, 04:26   #94
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Re: What are essential foods to bring?

^^ Jim, nobody is suggesting alcohol is a one size fits all solution for everybody, at least I wasn't, I don't think that kind of solution exists in yachting

The OP asked what kind of stove he should replace his Origo 4100 with. An Origo 4100 seemed to be a fairly obvious response. No modifications required, just drop the new one in place.

If you refer to the pics in post 81, unless the boat has a second galley somewhere, there isn't room for a 2 burner gimbaled propane range with an oven.

For me the Origo was a good compromise. I didn't want propane, I don't like it, that's just a personal bias. What I really wanted was a diesel range and oven. I have the space, the weight is irrelevant on my boat, I already carry 480 litres of diesel on board. I sail exclusively in northern climates- I don't even like to go south into the states because there are laws there I would rather not subject myself to and I'm still 12 years until I'm eligible for retirement. So diesel stove and heat is a perfect solution right? Only until I consulted with my bank account. Maybe one day, but I needed to be able to cook now, not in 5 years when I could save up for a Dickinson.

The Origo was an inexpensive, simple, effective compromise. I think its an even better fit for the op then it is for me, since he doesn't have the space and already existing propane locker and plumbing that I do.

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Old 05-10-2015, 10:46   #95
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Re: What are essential foods to bring?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
...

Finally, in our years of cruising in the Island Pacific, LPG availability has grown greatly, while kerosene is disappearing, and alcohol has always been scarce in remote villages. If any commercial fuel is used in village life, nowadays it is likely to be LPG... usually in the form of "swap bottles" which necessitates gravity transfer to y our LPG tank, and that can be a PITA, but it can be done. We've spent the odd afternoon sitting in the shade of the tree from which the swap bottle is hanging, slowly disgorging its contents into our somewhat rusty tanks.

...
Thats an easy problem to solve though...just build a transfer adaptor using a local adaptor (often the bayonet type here in CA) with the integral regulator diaphram removed and the internal holes enlarged. This will move fuel much faster.
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Old 05-10-2015, 11:40   #96
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Re: What are essential foods to bring?

Quote:
Originally Posted by northoceanbeach View Post
That 4000 on ebay looks good, is it the same dimensions as the 4100? I want one that will fit my hole, let me know, I will make them an offer on it right now.
Not everyone on this thread may have those dimensions. I would offer that they would most likely be available on the Origo website, no?

We had a two burner on our C25 for 13 years great stoves.

We have a Magma, but it's too windy here on most afternoons to use it, so we pan fry steaks down below.
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Old 05-10-2015, 13:18   #97
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Re: What are essential foods to bring?

Good day, Jim.

It was not my intention either to suggest that alcohol is in any way a superior fuel, or that it is easier to get. Never having cruised the world myself I can't address that with any authority. My only point, for those people (like myself) who are either uncomfortable with propane for safety reasons, are considering alcohol for space or cost reasons, or perhaps an alcohol stove is the one they already have and they are wondering if it's okay to go cruising with it or what problems they might encounter, I just wanted to put out there my personal positive experiences with it to add to the balance with everyone who suggests that propane is the only way to go. Propane for a lot of people is a really great way to go, but it is not the only way and there are many people cruising happily with alcohol stoves who have their own reasons for not wanting propane.

The only reason I think the issue of how much fuel you can store was stressed is because some posters were questioning whether it was actually impossible to get in certain places. I just wanted to state that its possible to carry enough, even in a small boat like the CD-28 to last for quite a time. Probably not enough for a circumnavigation but maybe from one place of availability to the next with a little planning?

The OP already has the set up for the Origo stove. Having owned the same boat I already know he doesn't have an adequate propane locker and has precious little room to spare to put one in. We used the Origo on our CD 28 for 3 years, and on other boats as well, and were completely satisfied with it in every way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
FWIW:

There is lots of talk about carrying supplies of fuel, and how one can store lots of alcohol more readily than lots of propane.

The facts: Methyl alcohol has 57,250 BTU/gallon, propane has 84,250 BTU/gallon. That is, the energy content of propane is ~1.5 times greater than methanol on a volumetric basis. LPG is somewhat less dense than metho, but the storage containers are heavier, so weight wise its a wash.

Thus Ms Watson, had she carried an equal amount of propane, could have gone around another one and one half times (not that this really matters!). She was a hard working solo voyager, and I dunno how much she really cooked. Ann and I eat well, she bakes bread, we have a lot of "cuppas" ourselves and with friends... and a 9 kg propane tank averages 12 weeks for us, year in and year out.

It is true that one can store alcohol in small plastic jars, just as it comes from the hardware store, but I'm leery of storing volatile fuels thusly, and any weight advantage disappears when you must decant the alcohol into sturdier tanks for storage.

The necessity for a well designed LPG storage locker is well recognized, and that is somewhat more of an exercise than simply designing an alcohol storage tank... no argument there! And it is true that the Origo stoves seem to be less expensive than typical marine LPG stoves... but those more expensive stoves usually include a thermostatically controlled oven and a broiler which are good to have.

Finally, in our years of cruising in the Island Pacific, LPG availability has grown greatly, while kerosene is disappearing, and alcohol has always been scarce in remote villages. If any commercial fuel is used in village life, nowadays it is likely to be LPG... usually in the form of "swap bottles" which necessitates gravity transfer to y our LPG tank, and that can be a PITA, but it can be done. We've spent the odd afternoon sitting in the shade of the tree from which the swap bottle is hanging, slowly disgorging its contents into our somewhat rusty tanks.

There are lots of folks for whom the Origo stoves seem to work very well, and I'm happy for them. For our type of cruising and cooking, the LPG has been a good choice.

YMMV.

Jim
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Old 05-10-2015, 13:52   #98
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Re: What are essential foods to bring?

I haven't been to the SP, but I'm fairly well traveled. I haven't been to too many places where you couldn't get your hands on high proof moonshine or high proof medical alcohol, its a pretty basic thing available at a lot of small town pharmacies through out the world. Stove fuel alcohol might be hard to find but you should be able to find some kind of high proof alcohol in just about any mid size town. If your cruising plans don't allow for visiting a town or small city every few months for supplies, you're doing a pretty specialised type of cruising, bordering on expedition sailing. You really aren't talking the same language as the common recreational sailor if you never visit a town big enough for a paint store or well stocked pharmacy.

Edit: and if you are going to be on a walkabout for more than a few months, hopefully you have a boat big enough to carry a few extra gallons of stove fuel. If you don't plan on stopping at a population centre for over a year? You're not researching cook stoves on CF.
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Old 06-10-2015, 04:35   #99
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Re: What are essential foods to bring?

I thought the alcohol stoves sorta smelled bad down below or is that just me...
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Old 06-10-2015, 05:23   #100
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Re: What are essential foods to bring?

There is a slight smell, not dissimilar to the smell of burning sugar.

I don't understand why every one expects alcohol, as a fuel source to be absent of faults. Propane sure as heck isn't absent of faults. Diesel gives off more than a slight smell.

I faced this same anti alcohol stove campaign when I purchased mine. I did my math, and discussed it with people I knew (never mentioned it on CF because there is no way to tell if the guy on the other end of the computer knows what he's talking about). Specifically I discussed it with my dad, who had an old pressurised alcohol stove on his 1974 Grampian 23, which he sold in 1986. His opinion was negative, very similar to many of those you read above, not very hot, hard to get fuel for in Europe etc, hard to operate. I respect my dads opinion about such things, he's always owned small boats, was an avid mountaineer all his life and most importantly, worked his entire career in remote camps in Northern Canada and with CN rail. I wasn't convinced though, his information was at best, 29 years old.

I asked a friend, also a knowledgeable guy. He'd had a pressurised alcohol stove on an 1986 boat he had that he sold in around 2000. He hated alcohol stoves, but his information was at least 15 years old and he had a CNG cooker on his boat, so I was definitely going to take his opinion with a grain of salt.

Yes, it is not a perfect fuel source, but Origo stoves work very well, are very easy to use, you can get a model with an oven if you want, alcohol is easy to find if you know where to look, it requires no complex systems and it won't shoot fireballs at you if you make a mistake. Yes, it can be pricey, yes it has lower btu/weight than propane, yes there is a slight alcohol smell when you're burning alcohol.

If you like propane use propane, but all I've seen so far are some pretty weak arguments about why not to use alcohol. They both alcohol and propane work fine, because I chose alcohol doesn't mean you are wrong to use propane, however, the opposite is also true. For all the alcohol haters out there, go cook a couple of meals on an Origo (or similar) stove, then come back with your arguments, I know I've cooked on propane, diesel, alcohol, kerosene, wood and charcoal and could be happy with any of them under the right circumstances. In fact I've even had many a meal cooked on dried yack dung, it works, but it has low btu/weight and I think storing a yack on a cruising boat, truly could be a problem.

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Old 06-10-2015, 12:16   #101
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Re: What are essential foods to bring?

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I thought the alcohol stoves sorta smelled bad down below or is that just me...
After a few weeks at sea its most likely you.....
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Old 06-10-2015, 12:38   #102
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Re: What are essential foods to bring?

Well now that we have settled the issue of the best fuel source... and we have listed some pretty nice foodstuffs, in reality, at least for me, while you are sailing you will most likely be eating pb and j in the cockpit most of the time. Really cooking stuff down below while you are sailing can be challenging. I remember on one delivery it was my turn to cook and someone had decided we had to make and bake a fancy fig desert. That was thirty years ago and I STILL get queasy when I smell or see a desert with figs in it. So for those of you who can fire up the Magma grill or bake bread while sailing on a close reach I say I am definitely impressed. But hand me the salami, Nutella and gorp please.
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Old 06-10-2015, 13:09   #103
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Re: What are essential foods to bring?

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Well now that we have settled the issue of the best fuel source... and we have listed some pretty nice foodstuffs, in reality, at least for me, while you are sailing you will most likely be eating pb and j in the cockpit most of the time. Really cooking stuff down below while you are sailing can be challenging. I remember on one delivery it was my turn to cook and someone had decided we had to make and bake a fancy fig desert. That was thirty years ago and I STILL get queasy when I smell or see a desert with figs in it. So for those of you who can fire up the Magma grill or bake bread while sailing on a close reach I say I am definitely impressed. But hand me the salami, Nutella and gorp please.
I'm with you, Don. I don't like to cook underway either. Depending on conditions sometimes I don't even like to go below to get anything, let alone have to cook it. But once the anchor is down we really enjoy a good meal.

We have always been local cruisers i.e. our cruises were just a series of daysails, so we usually had hot breakfast (maybe) and dinner but lunch underway is always sandwich, leftovers, or something else that was prepared in advance. I would imagine on a multi-day passage I would try to manage to cook something because we simply enjoy eating a balanced diet too much to live on pbj and snack foods. (Maybe that's why we're not planning a lot of multi-day passages....)

But I am sure the OP is not going to be underway 24/7/365. There will be much time when he is anchored or at dock when he will want to eat something more nourishing and tasty than pop tarts and fruit leathers. At least I hope so.
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Old 06-10-2015, 13:17   #104
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Re: What are essential foods to bring?

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I'm with you, Don. I don't like to cook underway either. Depending on conditions sometimes I don't even like to go below to get anything, let alone have to cook it. But once the anchor is down we really enjoy a good meal.

We have always been local cruisers i.e. our cruises were just a series of daysails, so we usually had hot breakfast (maybe) and dinner but lunch underway is always sandwich, leftovers, or something else that was prepared in advance. I would imagine on a multi-day passage I would try to manage to cook something because we simply enjoy eating a balanced diet too much to live on pbj and snack foods. (Maybe that's why we're not planning a lot of multi-day passages....)

But I am sure the OP is not going to be underway 24/7/365. There will be much time when he is anchored or at dock when he will want to eat something more nourishing and tasty than pop tarts and fruit leathers. At least I hope so.
OOH! Pop tarts! I forgot about those! Updating my list...... Yeah I don't think anyone will sign on with me looking for the cuisine cruise...
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Old 06-10-2015, 13:38   #105
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Re: What are essential foods to bring?

I found small cans of dried veggies that I add to Raman that bulkes it up nicely and hot sauce. I need try dried shrimp, fish or meat. To add flavor. I dont much care for the wet canned meats. Any have experience with dried or dehydrated seafood or other meats? Thanks

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