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Old 01-06-2012, 01:35   #151
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Re: Vegetarian Cruising

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As another data point, most of my family on both sides have some type of coronary heart disease. Before going strict vegan I ate some chicken, fish, dairy and eggs. My cholesterol LDL levels were over 260, my triglycerides where high and so was my blood pressure, despite only being 25 years old (oh so many years ago) and biking 80 miles a week. The doctor told me I was at high risk for a heart attack in the next 5 years if things didn't change. So I quit all meat and eggs. Two years later I had LDL of 112, normal triglycerides and normal blood pressure so I never looked back and since stopped eating dairy too. Several people in my family have died from heart attacks, are obese, have type 2 diabetes and EVERYONE but me (and my vegan sister) is on some type of satin drug.

I learned a lot from Dr. Dean Ornish and his research. And I recently saw Forks Over Knives which has compelling medical research about the benefits of plant based diets and eliminating dairy too. (Largely based on The China Study and clinical animal testing.)

One more personal story. I had a friend with a 90% blockage near his heart. He showed me the images and I told him to get angioplasty and don't mess around. He didn't want the surgery and followed Ornish's plan strictly. We all supported him, but quietly kept wondering if he was doing the right thing. Six months later he walked into my office and slapped down another image showing the blockage was completely reversed. It was one thing to just read about the benefits, it was another to see his blockage reverse.
Great Post Eric! Forks Over Knives is what helped me make my decision to go on a whole plant food based diet. After reading your comment about your friend I could not help but mention Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn's book 'Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease,' (excellent BTW) as you probably know, he was featured in Forks over Knives as well. He has done some long term studies that are VERY convincing.
I work in the Cardiac Cath Labs and I see this day in and day out...I blows my mind that more emphasis is not put on this kind of diet change...if there is anything that we CAN control it is what we put into our mouths!

Mary
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Old 01-06-2012, 04:49   #152
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Re: Vegetarian Cruising

Breakfast is an easy one for me. Ive taken to making a super healthy oatmeal. Starts with steel cut oats which bought in bulk is very cheap and keeps forever. I like to get my dose of EFAs right off the bat and 2 tablespoons of flax seed fresh ground in the coffee grinder after the cooking is done.Flax seed has a 1yr shelf life in the whole form. that supplies +- 130% of the rda of omega 3s. If theres fresh fruit it goes in, if not raisins, dried papaya and or coconut flakes. If Im feeling like sweetening I add some turbinado sugar or agave syrup. Ive noticed that when I do this breakfast Im very hungry by lunch. I think it has some way of kick starting the metabolism into action. All parts of the oatmeal keep for extended periods with no refrigeration so its Ideal for long passages.

The oil in the diet is easy on long trips. I try not to use oils I prefer to use nuts, and seeds in their whole form. Mother nature has packaged the oil in containers that keep for extended periods without need for refrigeration. When I go to SC Im amazed that it seems there are pecans to be had for free everywhere. Last time I left with enough to last for over a year and gave a bunch away. Theyre going for over $10 a lb shelled in stores. Seems when you have a tree in your yard you take them for granted as nobody I asked had any problem with me "cleaning" up their yard.
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Old 01-06-2012, 06:05   #153
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Re: Vegetarian Cruising

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So when out on an extended trip how do you stock up on food that would fit your eating preference? I would think that storage and refrigeration would be difficult?
Based on our experience in the hot tropics: Surprisingly long term storage is easier to do in poor, remote places than in industrialized countries. Produce that has been refrigerated or picked before ripened does not store as long. Always try to find recently picked items that have not been refrigerated. They will last the longest.

Oddly the more organic the produce the longer they stay fresh. I have no idea why this seems to be the case and it is only based on limited experience because organic produce is hard to find in the 3rd world. Maybe it has to do with a shorter time to market for these smaller organic growers? I don't know.

There are only a few items that we actually refrigerate and it is usually only after they have been cut open or prepared in a dish that we put things in the refrigerator. With some practice you'll be surprised to find how long you can make things last even in the tropics.

Some tips are to wrap carrots in news paper and change them when they become damp. Certain fruits and veggies should be kept in separate locations because they tend to increase the ripening speeds. As an example, don't put green bananas together with older yellow ones as they seem to force the others to ripen faster.

If you can buy herbs with the roots, keep them in water like cut flowers, they will last a long time if they are freshly picked. Sprouts are good for growing and eating on board as a fresh supplement.

There are also items that you just can't keep in the tropics. Fresh mushrooms are the first that come to mind. But there are some things that you either have to go with canned or go without.

We schedule our meals to work though the most perishable items first, saving the freshest and hardiest stuff for the up coming weeks. Once we are out of fresh stuff then we have to move on to canned ingredients, dried grains/beans/pasta/rice/soy etc.

In general though you really have to experiment. We've found that results vary widely and often multiple variables come into play like the species of the produce, the climate, the ripeness, etc. Sometimes we can keep one item fresh for 4 weeks and other times it barely makes it 1 and it can be a mystery as to why. So just keep experimenting because there are no hard or fast rules.

Every sailor who has spent time on the sea realizes that fresh produce is the stuff of dreams. Most of the long distant sailors I know don't think twice about eating veggie foods because unless you have a massive freezer and/or really good at fishing you're going to be making your share of vegetarian food. I still remember the first time I was looking to crew on the Vic-Maui race and I told the captain I was vegetarian, he said, "Good! You won't be complaining there's no meat."
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Old 04-06-2012, 14:48   #154
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Re: Vegetarian Cruising

I use an apartment size dehydrator. When fruits and veggies are available in abundance, we buy things in bulk and then dehydrate them and store them using a FoodSaver.
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Old 07-06-2012, 04:56   #155
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Re: Vegetarian Cruising

For those who geek out, here's a link in regards ethylene, the food ripening agent.

Ethylene
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Old 10-06-2012, 04:07   #156
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Re: Vegetarian Cruising

one of the things i find intriquing about this thread is how little biochemistry and physiology is understood by many of the contributors.

so, with many caveats, here goes:

1) in terms of calorific value by weight: fat is highest, carbohydrates are next and proteins are last

2) sheep are obligate herbivores, dogs are obligate carnivores, man/chimpanzee and pigs are omnivores

3) pigs, humans/chimpanzee can have an entirely vegetable diet so long as the food they consume is high in oils (i.e. fats) and sugars/starches.

4) pigs, humans and chimpanzee do not have the type of gut that allows for the efficient extraction of energy from plant material that is essentially cellulose (the cell walls) and water (e.g. herbs and grasses)

5) the guts of obligate herbivores (e.g. ruminants (cows, goats, sheep, deer)) are fermentation chambers where friendly bacteria breakdown the indigestible cellulose to simple sugars which the host animal can then metabolise

6) the stomachs of carnivores (e.g. dogs) and omnivores (e.g. pigs, man) excrete acids to denature proteins and start their breakdown; gut bacteria are unimportant to their energy balance.

7) the breakdown of starches by omnivores is intiated by enzymes in saliva

8) this is why dogs eat once a day for 2 minutes and sheep eat for continuously for 12 hrs

9) humans have probably only been able to chose a vegan lifestyle in the last 5000 years after the technology for reliably growing, harvesting and processing grains (high starch content) in quantity became known (true hunter gatherers (e.g. the San of Namibia) are, by definition, omnivores)

10) the idea that meat rots in the gut was disproved in 1825 by William Beaumont

11) flatulence in humans is exacerbated by the consumption of foods with a high inulin content (this is a polysaccharide our gut bacteria can breakdown). it is present in beans but if you want to have an amusing, if somewhat odorous, post-prandial evening i suggest serving jerusalem artichokes as a vegetable
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Old 10-06-2012, 07:16   #157
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Re: Vegetarian Cruising

The thing everyone forgets is we cook our food and have for a long time. In essence this has forced us (now) to look for high quality or rich food sources because it has shortened our digestive track from the classic herbivore. See "Catching Fire: How Cooking Made Us Human".

@bobsadler: I understand you to claim many caveats, so I won't nit-pick. However several things you state are just speculation and #6 suggests the opposite of your conclusions because humans have high amounts of gut bacteria designed for plant sources. And I don't understand #3 unless you are just saying it is harder to get sufficient calories without fat and sugar. The antithesis of #9 could also be said about humans and meat. Without cutting tools/cooking humans lack the proper teeth structure and jaw width to eat anything but very small animals. Chimps have to really chew and chew and chew to consume raw meat and people who observe them have measured the caloric benefits vs. time & effort compared to fruits is negligible due to the difficulty in eating raw meat. Despite chimps bigger jaws and teeth they struggle to eat raw meat so they don't eat it much.

If we wind back the clock, humans started to eat meat around 2.5 million years ago, prior to that, it is thought we were just pure herbivores. Once we started using tools and cooking 2.5 to 1.9 million years ago our digestive systems started to change and homo erectus emerged in fossil records.

The internet is a flood of articles comparing humans to either herbivores or carnivores then coming to the conclusion of humans being omnivores. I think what is more telling is when you compare the human digestive system with that of all three: herbivores, omnivores and carnivores. The difference becomes more apparent that we are weighted more towards herbivore. The Comparative Anatomy of Eating

While eating meat forced us to think and evolve differently from our genetic cousins, numerous medical studies have shown that the long term detriments of a meat based diet are very real to humans (and our environment). While it is fun to argue history & evolutionary paths, what is important is how to improve our health and environment now.
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Old 10-06-2012, 07:40   #158
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Re: Vegetarian Cruising

no, our digestive track is far more similar to a dog than a sheep but virtually identical to a pig. in fact it has often been said that only a doctor, veterinarian or anatomist can tell a pig gut from a human gut if the two are laid side by side.

in terms of our energy requirements our gut bacteria produce a negligible contribution. without gut bacteria an obligate herbivore quite simply cannot live.

i tend to believe that extremism in anything is generally harmful and i believe that applies to diet as much as anything else.
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Old 10-06-2012, 08:18   #159
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Re: Vegetarian Cruising

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no, our digestive track is far more similar to a dog than a sheep but virtually identical to a pig. in fact it has often been said that only a doctor, veterinarian or anatomist can tell a pig gut from a human gut if the two are laid side by side.

in terms of our energy requirements our gut bacteria produce a negligible contribution. without gut bacteria an obligate herbivore quite simply cannot live.

i tend to believe that extremism in anything is generally harmful and i believe that applies to diet as much as anything else.
Your first claim about similarity to a dog is totally wrong, and you should do further research about gut bacteria, as you obviously know little about the subject. You may want to start with this article. Bacteria in the Intestine, Helpful Residents or Enemies from Within?

"extremism" is eating an unhealthy diet when one knows better. It doesn't matter whether the justification is convenience or flavor (gluttony) or cultural bias. Most of us enjoy an affuent enough lifestyle that afforts us choices about diet.
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Old 10-06-2012, 09:35   #160
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Re: Vegetarian Cruising

The emerging science on fats and metabolism point to omega 3s aiding in permeability of cell wall structure allowing for better transfer of oxygen to feed the cells. Hardening of the cell walls is contributed to heavily by hydrogenated fats and to a lesser extent animal fats. Most of this comes from the person who developed the technology to differentiate between fat types and was involved in the first research of this type. Johanna Budwig who wrote many books on the relationship between treated fats and its relationship to cancer and heart disease. Plants contain all the needed essential fatty acids required by the human body. The body can make its own cholesterol and is not needed in ones diet. I try to make sure to include nuts and seeds in their natural whole form in my daily diet as the vast majority of fat intake.
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Old 10-06-2012, 10:04   #161
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Re: Vegetarian Cruising

Sometimes vegetarians and vegans attitudes are so abrasive that in their attempts to educate me they simply repel me. I don't try to convert them into bone sucking carnivores and I don't think that I am superior, but they often seem to feel that they are.
When we were at the boatyard we threw a BBQ, cheeseburgers. Celestial Sailor showed up, happy to join us. He brought excellent conversation and a normal attitude. I made him a cheeseburger without meat (I grilled a bunch of veggies and melted some cheese on them), he said he really enjoyed it. We became friends and his words of wisdom on diet have stuck with me.
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Old 11-06-2012, 02:42   #162
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Re: Vegetarian Cruising

well SFT since it is 40 years since i did my undergraduate degree in microbiology, physiology and biochemistry it is perfectly possible that the world of biology has been turned on its head by subsequent discoveries and the following link does indeed suggest that that might be the case:

Sausages are off the menu for this DOG who is allergic to MEAT | Mail Online
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Old 11-06-2012, 04:24   #163
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Re: Vegetarian Cruising

[QUOTE=sww914;968099]Sometimes vegetarians and vegans attitudes are so abrasive that in their attempts to educate me they simply repel me. I don't try to convert them into bone sucking carnivores and I don't think that I am superior, but they often seem to feel that they are.


Ever been attacked for your food choices to the point you feel like someone is gay bashing or something? Going to my parents house I couldnt believe the outright hostility at dinner time. Ma raises beef and thinks its a personal affront when someone chooses not to eat meat. I had a steak, Im not an ethical vegan, my girlfriend who is an ethical vegan (who did no preaching)was under attack. Ahem, thats a pretty lofty abrasive attitude your displaying right there. Especially when posted on a thread about vegetarian cruising.
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Old 11-06-2012, 09:38   #164
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Re: Vegetarian Cruising

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no, our digestive track is far more similar to a dog than a sheep but virtually identical to a pig. in fact it has often been said that only a doctor, veterinarian or anatomist can tell a pig gut from a human gut if the two are laid side by side.

in terms of our energy requirements our gut bacteria produce a negligible contribution. without gut bacteria an obligate herbivore quite simply cannot live.

i tend to believe that extremism in anything is generally harmful and i believe that applies to diet as much as anything else.
I have to disagree with you. They are not only physically but chemically different. Since many animals are used for drug testing their systems have been studied extensively in comparison to humans. And if you read the PREVIOUS article I linked to you'd see the many differences as well besides just the gut. But in terms of just the GI track here is another analysis Comparison of the gastrointestinal anatomy, physiology, and biochemistry of humans and commonly used laboratory animals - Kararli - 2006 - Biopharmaceutics & Drug Disposition - Wiley Online Library showing humans vs dog vs pig vs rat vs horse, etc. None of them are really the same. If you look at my original link you will see we are much more similar to herbivores. Cooking our food is really when we started to branch away from herbivores.

Extremism is when then #1 cause of death in the USA is heart disease and it is completely preventable (barring physical defects) by NOT eating meat.

And as a vegetarian and later vegan I was constantly under a barrage of jokes, teasing, and people who think it's funny to try to sneak in meat products into my food. So it wouldn't surprise me if I or others are over sensitive or "preachy" about our personal choices. I apologize in advance. Fortunately attitudes have changed quite a bit over the last 20 years making it a more acceptable choice. But as you can see by reading this thread people are still on the "offensive" about it.
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Old 11-06-2012, 18:52   #165
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Re: Vegetarian Cruising

since chimpanzee don't cook their food, but, given the chance, are as omnivorous as humans i would suggest to you that our purported "branch[ing] away from herbivores" as a result of learning to barbecue is an hypothesis that is unlikely at best (and that's probably being kind).
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