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Old 28-02-2012, 10:25   #31
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Re: Using an electric tea kettle to save propane?

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Oh my, you're in France! I believe they record TV series there all the time, you can't go and cook there as they would start screaming and jumping with camera's rolling and before you know it you end up in the evening news as some kind of Mad Max era caveman that has been discovered living in the ruins of man kind


Nick.
And if they see his old avatar that could be a serious problem!

John
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Old 28-02-2012, 10:58   #32
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Re: Using an electric tea kettle to save propane?

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So how long does that 1 kW or 1.5 kW kettle take to bring water to a boil.

Let's say 3 minutes. With a 1 kW kettle, this translates to 0.05 kWh.

This is only 4 Ah ! Inverter loss, let's make it 5 Ah.

This is much better deal than using propane, which should be saved wherever possible because it is what you run out of first otherwise.

cheers,
Nick.
This post sums it up...... it takes very little power to boil a liter of water and this thread shows how the amount of electrical power required remains misunderstood.
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Old 28-02-2012, 11:04   #33
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Re: Using an electric tea kettle to save propane?

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And if they see his old avatar that could be a serious problem!

John
Oh too late, they already got him:


ciao!
Nick.
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Old 28-02-2012, 11:25   #34
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Re: Using an electric tea kettle to save propane?

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This post sums it up...... it takes very little power to boil a liter of water and this thread shows how the amount of electrical power required remains misunderstood.
Also, when using an electric kettle the efficiency is really high - most of the power goes into heating water. With a propane stove, a lot of heat is lost to the cabin so only a fraction (I'm going to guess 1/3) actually goes into heating the water.
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Old 28-02-2012, 12:17   #35
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Re: Using an electric tea kettle to save propane?

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We bought a small electric kettle, thinking it would be faster and save energy. But that thing uses 9 amps on 230v. That is a lot! Granted, it uses 9 amps for only a short time; but that is a big draw. At electricity rates of .35 euro per kwh, that seems a tad expensive. Propane is cheaper than electricity where we are currently docked. Don't think we will be using this electric kettle when at anchor unless the generator is running. But it will be nice to have when we are back in the tropics again. Hate heating up the entire saloon with the stove.

Judy
I dont understand this, you have a 53 ft Amel, it must have a big battery bank surely..600a at 24v ... 1200a at 12v??
9a at 230v = 2100w kettle....but its not 9a for an hour. Its 2100w for 1.5 minutes to boil more than half a liter. This equals 52wh or 4.3ah at 12v or 2.1ah at 24volts....its nothing.
I cant see how a battery bank on a 53ft boat would even notice it.

I know there is a story that goes around that people with electric kettles start their generators to make a cup of tea...but I dont believe that anyone with a generator ever had to do this.
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Old 28-02-2012, 13:03   #36
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Re: Using an Electric Tea Kettle to Save Propane ?

No matter how you make your coffee, I am with the guy who suggested you need another propane tank. Many places you go you will find it hard to get propane and with one tank you will be filling your tank when it might still be 1/3rd full - and most places do not charge by the pound/kilogram, they charge by the size of the tank.
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Old 28-02-2012, 14:30   #37
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Re: Using an Electric Tea Kettle to Save Propane ?

We have the Bodum Bistro 17 ounce kettle that takes just 3 minutes to boil water (it actually starts the boil in about 2 1/2 minutes). It's a 700 watt unit at 120v and our Xantrex 1000 watt handles this just fine.

About 3-4 amps for 17 oz of hot water... not too bad.
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Old 28-02-2012, 15:50   #38
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Re: Using an electric tea kettle to save propane?

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Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
Oh my, you're in France! I believe they record TV series there all the time, you can't go and cook there as they would start screaming and jumping with camera's rolling and before you know it you end up in the evening news as some kind of Mad Max era caveman that has been discovered living in the ruins of man kind


Nick.
Oops! - am not in France (that's 15 miles away) meant to say "Napoleonic Era Fort" .....actually it pre-dates that (16th Century) and originally built to keep Pirates away from the nearby port and then Le Froggies out .

For half the day it is an Island .



Above from the seaward side. good luck on spotting the German concrete bunkers and gun emplacements .

I won't derail this thread anymore - will probably start a new thread on my new adventures, it's been a few years......
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Old 28-02-2012, 20:06   #39
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Re: Using an Electric Tea Kettle to Save Propane ?

In order to save propane I switched to using a Simplex kettle. They are copper with tin lining. The kettle has a metal coil around the edge of the bottom and a metal shield on the outside of that - this stops the waste of heat and flames licking up the side of the kettle.

Simplex claims the kettle boils 25% faster. My own timed experiments show a 17% improvement - still a signicant saving in propane.

Simplex stopped making the kettle for a while to retool their factory in England but I believe they are back in operation again. The kettles are not cheap - about $100. But I am very happy with mine. Bought in on eBay. They are supposed to have a slow whistle but mine doesn't work, but no big deal.

Dennison
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Old 02-03-2012, 04:47   #40
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Re: Using an electric tea kettle to save propane?

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I dont understand this, you have a 53 ft Amel, it must have a big battery bank surely..600a at 24v ... 1200a at 12v??
9a at 230v = 2100w kettle....but its not 9a for an hour. Its 2100w for 1.5 minutes to boil more than half a liter. This equals 52wh or 4.3ah at 12v or 2.1ah at 24volts....its nothing.
I cant see how a battery bank on a 53ft boat would even notice it.

I know there is a story that goes around that people with electric kettles start their generators to make a cup of tea...but I dont believe that anyone with a generator ever had to do this.
It costs us diesel to recharge that battery bank when not plugged into shore power. You are correct, our boat does have a large battery bank -- house bank is 12 batts of 105ah each wired for 24v system.

My point is that it costs more to heat that kettle of water than one might think. We are docked in a marina for the winter season. Electricity here costs .35 Euro cents per kwh. I just tested the electric kettle and my original amount was a tad low. To boil 1 ltr water in this kettle takes 3 minutes 45 seconds -- 30 seconds using at rate of 8 amps; 3 minutes at rate of 11 amps; and 15 seconds at rate of 8 amps. I had my husband verify the math. It costs 23 Euro cents to heat 1 ltr of water. That is 30 cents USD. That seems expensive to me.

It would be difficult to determine the cost of propane for 3 minutes 45 seconds. A 20-lb tank refill costs $20 USD; the 10-lb tank costs $10.82 USD -- the marina handles refills at the nearby village so that includes their handling fee. A 20-lb tank lasts us 4 months, cooking 3 meals per day including frequent baking.

At 30 cents per liter to boil water in the electric kettle, I could boil only 66.7 liters for the same $20 that I can pay the marina to fill the 20-lb propane tank. I could boil a heck of a lot more water than 66.7 liters with that 20-lb tank of propane.

I continue to believe that propane is cheaper for this purpose than the electric kettle -- until someone can mathematically prove otherwise.

Judy
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Old 02-03-2012, 05:05   #41
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Re: Using an electric tea kettle to save propane?

I guess it comes down to how many BTU's there are in a bottle of gas compared to the energy required to boil the water whilst heating the kettle and air (efficiencies) you know i really don't care because i'd rather have a beer from my totally inefficient fridge.....

Need a lover of math to answer this one, for sure.

I'd use gas when not running genset, gas is way more efficient than electricity for most cooking and i think that would carry to boiling water, a whistling kettle in the design of Kuan Yin's Simplex would be the best choice.......probably?

Good post all fun. Cheers
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Old 02-03-2012, 05:34   #42
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Re: Using an Electric Tea Kettle to Save Propane ?

bebe i think your maths is a little out, , a 2kw kettle running for 4 mins will consume 0.3kwh or about 12c in euros at 35c per kwh
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Old 02-03-2012, 05:37   #43
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Re: Using an Electric Tea Kettle to Save Propane ?

sorry my maths are out make that 0.130 kw h making 4.5c
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Old 02-03-2012, 05:41   #44
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Re: Using an Electric Tea Kettle to Save Propane ?

out of curiosity i just time my kettle which is 2kw and it boiled a litre in just over 2 min making about 65wh so 2.2c to boil a kettle in euros at 35c per kw h
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Old 02-03-2012, 05:53   #45
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Re: Using an Electric Tea Kettle to Save Propane ?

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sorry my maths are out make that 0.130 kw h making 4.5c
You are correct! Bill just went back over the math and came up with 4.6c or 6.1 cents USD. That makes it a lot more reasonable than the 30 cents I was looking at. So, to compare costs to that 20-lb tank of propane that lasts 40 months of normal daily cooking then I could boil about 328 liters of water in the electric kettle. It looks more cost feasible now.

Judy
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