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Old 07-06-2010, 22:04   #31
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Rubbing alcohol and denatured alcohol are NOT the same thing. Rubbing alcohol is isopropyl while denatured alcohol is methyl. Rubbing alcohol at 98% (I think the highest concentration you can buy at the pharmacy/chemist) has water in it while denatured does not. And that 2% water will cause any jetted stove to burn unevenly, cause smutty soot to build up and if pressurized, will make the stove malfunction. Dangerously so.

I use two burner propane camp stove and single burner butane stove. A one pound butane cylinder will last me 2 weeks and a butane cylinder about 5 days. As a hiker (have I mentioned before that I hike?) I am very conscious of fuel consumption. And I cook in one pot.
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Old 22-06-2010, 21:31   #32
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btu/gal Methanol 8600 btu/lb (yellow Heet), (S-L-X) denatured alcohol sold worlwide, various formulations, toxic if ingested. $7/gal
btu/gal ethanol 11500 btu/lb Everclear Grain Alcohol 190 proof $35/1.75l
btu/gal gasoline 19000 btu/lb
btu/gal kerosene 19800 btu/lb
btu/gal propane 21500 btu/lb
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Old 23-06-2010, 00:51   #33
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Originally Posted by timothy22 View Post
btu/gal Methanol 8600 btu/lb (yellow Heet), (S-L-X) denatured alcohol sold worlwide, various formulations, toxic if ingested. $7/gal
btu/gal ethanol 11500 btu/lb Everclear Grain Alcohol 190 proof $35/1.75l
btu/gal gasoline 19000 btu/lb
btu/gal kerosene 19800 btu/lb
btu/gal propane 21500 btu/lb
Thanks for that specific data.

Do you, or anyone reading this, know if any fuel other denatured alcohol can be used in the Origo 3000, non-pressurised, stoves? Like ethanol, or maybe a mix of white spirits and kero?

Cheers
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Old 23-06-2010, 05:59   #34
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Tim,

Quote:
Originally Posted by timothy22 View Post
btu/gal Methanol 8600 btu/lb (yellow Heet), (S-L-X) denatured alcohol sold worlwide, various formulations, toxic if ingested. $7/gal
btu/gal ethanol 11500 btu/lb Everclear Grain Alcohol 190 proof $35/1.75l
btu/gal gasoline 19000 btu/lb
btu/gal kerosene 19800 btu/lb
btu/gal propane 21500 btu/lb
I'm trying to figure out how to read your table. Since the different fuels have different densities and a gallon of any of them does not weigh a lb which do you mean ?

Are the numbers given per gallon or per pound and do you have a reference for the data ? The relative energy contents look about right so I'm not disputing the conclusion one might draw from your numbers, I'm just trying to understand where they came from and what they mean.

Thanks,


-Sven
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Old 23-06-2010, 06:10   #35
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God, it makes me nervous, just reading about people using alcohol as fuel on a boat.
I was on a boat once, that had an alcohol fire. never again.
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Old 23-06-2010, 07:17   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBellies View Post
Rubbing alcohol and denatured alcohol are NOT the same thing. Rubbing alcohol is isopropyl while denatured alcohol is methyl.
Almost. Rubbing alchohol is isopropyl alcohol but denatured alcohol is ethyl alcohol (the stuff you drink) with an additive or denaturant to make it undrinkable and not subject to the alcohol tax.

There are many different denaturants that can be added to ethyl alcohol including methyl alcohol and isopropyl alcohol, ketones or even gasoline for fuel applications.
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Old 23-06-2010, 10:39   #37
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As skipmac says, denatured alcohol is ethanol that has additives (such as 10% methanol*) to make it poisonous or unpalatable, and thus, undrinkable. In many countries, it is required that denatured alcohol be dyed blue or purple with an aniline dye.
* Hence “methylated spirit”.
Other typical additives include isopropyl alcohol, acetone, methyl ethyl ketone, & methyl isobutyl ketone.

What's in a name?
This chart is a guide for finding liquid fuels when traveling internationally.

Fuels Around The World, Resources Chart

Fuels Around The World

http ://www . casanovasadventures.com/catalog/camp/p1040.htm
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Old 23-06-2010, 11:01   #38
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Originally Posted by timothy22 View Post
Methanol 8600 btu/lb (yellow Heet), (S-L-X) denatured alcohol sold worlwide, various formulations, toxic if ingested. $7/gal
ethanol 11500 btu/lb Everclear Grain Alcohol 190 proof $35/1.75l
gasoline 19000 btu/lb
kerosene 19800 btu/lb
propane 21500 btu/lb
Sorry, I included the words "btu/gal" in my cut and paste by mistake. Table s/b
Methanol 8600 btu/lb (yellow Heet), (S-L-X) denatured alcohol sold worlwide, various formulations, toxic if ingested. $7/gal
ethanol 11500 btu/lb Everclear Grain Alcohol 190 proof $35/1.75l
gasoline 19000 btu/lb
kerosene 19800 btu/lb I have found kero all over Africa and Indonesia, years ago.
propane 21500 btu/lb
I just wanted to point out the relative heat potential of the common camp/marine stove fuels, as well as the poisonous properties of methanol/denatured alcohol. I mrntion grain alcohol only because it is an option for ultralightweight backpackers who might think that $15 is a fair price for a week's worth of totally non-toxic stove fuel.
BTW, one good way to put out an alcohol stove fire is to smother it with a very damp towel. Ask me how I know!
Some sources
http://www.generatorjoe.net/html/energy.html
http://www.exothink.com/Pages/btu.html
http://www.nooutage.com/fuels.htm#Fuel Comparison Chart
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Old 23-06-2010, 11:27   #39
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Originally Posted by SvenG View Post
Tim,



I'm trying to figure out how to read your table. Since the different fuels have different densities and a gallon of any of them does not weigh a lb which do you mean ?

Are the numbers given per gallon or per pound and do you have a reference for the data ? The relative energy contents look about right so I'm not disputing the conclusion one might draw from your numbers, I'm just trying to understand where they came from and what they mean.

Thanks,


-Sven
Sorry, I screwed up my cut and paste. how's this?

Methanol 8600 btu/lb (yellow Heet, S-L-X)
ethanol 11500 btu/lb (Everclear, Grain Alcohol 190 proof)
gasoline 19000 btu/lb
kerosene 19800 btu/lb
propane 21500 btu/lb
Some sources:
Fuel Energy Content and Unit Conversion Tables
BTU Content of Fuels
Fuel Selection Comparison Chart
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Old 24-06-2010, 01:04   #40
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God, it makes me nervous, just reading about people using alcohol as fuel on a boat.
I was on a boat once, that had an alcohol fire. never again.
Nar. No worries mate. The Origo fuel source is contained in a stainless steel cassette. Inside is a huge, absorbent wick. Once loaded with 1.2 litres of meth the wick simply contains it.

I've tested for leakage by loading a cassette then turning it upsidedown for a few days. Nothing leaked out.

It's important to note that the Origo stove is not a pressure system. It has just a couple of big wicks.

I find it more or less equal as regards cooking speed with my electric hob-top.
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Old 24-06-2010, 04:39   #41
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A friend of mine was returning into SF Bay after a days fishing and was below in the galley preparing dinner on an alcohol stove when a large wave struck the boat. A tank broke loose and punctured the hull and the stove got knocked about and a fire started. He went up to the helm and grabbed a fire extinguisher but the smoke was so thick and the fire so extensive he couldn't put it out.
He went back up to the helm to tell the captain the boat was burning and filling with seawater.
The captain looked at him coldly and said, " Don't worry about the fire, Frank, we're sinking."
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Old 25-06-2010, 01:17   #42
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God, it makes me nervous, just reading about people using alcohol as fuel on a boat.
I was on a boat once, that had an alcohol fire. never again.
The other really, really cool thing about my Origo stove is th ease of cleaning.

With any form of fixed stove you have to clean it in-situ. All those little nooks and cranies holding fat and oil deposits, over-boil, etc.

I've set up my Origo on a full gimbal base. The stove is held to this with four simple snap-clips.

To clean I simply unhitch the stove, remove the meth cassettes then sling the stove in the sink for a good scrub with wire-wool. Two/three minutes later it's clean,

You see, unlike pressure meth or kero stoves, the heat source for Origo is contained in removable cassettes. No nasty jets or pressure pumps to worry about.

Damned good stoves.
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