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Old 17-02-2016, 09:37   #76
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Re: Rice and other long-term rations storage

Well, our friends at Wiki suggest "Bay leaves have been used in entomology as the active ingredient in killing jars. " In other words, they are toxic enough to be used alone to kill all sorts of bugs.


Apparently there are several varieties of plant sharing the same generic name, all containing an essential oil called eugeneol, which is also found in cloves. That oil, in readily consumable doses, can also kill larger animals like humans.


So if your bay leaves aren't killing the weevils, you probably have old stale spices with all the essential oils gone.


Pretty much the same way that a gun won't kill anyone, after the bullets are all gone.


beth&-
Your home microwave will kill anything that a larger unit will kill. It boils the critters and explodes them. The only difference being, a commercial unit can have well more than twice the power of the best home units, so it will penetrate deeper and zap faster. With a home unit you'll have to spread things thinner and nuke them longer to get the same results. Or as they said in Jaws, "You're gonna need a bigger boat."
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Old 17-02-2016, 09:45   #77
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Re: Rice and other long-term rations storage

I haven't done it to see, but I believe for a microwave oven to generate heat, it requires moisture. So I think maybe, you can "Nuke" the snot out of flour for about as long as you want and not much happens to the flour? I had read to microwave flour for 5 min., but again I have not tried it myself, yet.

I am also assuming the irradiated food, like the long life milk is irradiated with some form of radiation other than microwave?
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Old 17-02-2016, 09:49   #78
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Re: Rice and other long-term rations storage

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I've read or heard the irradiating flour with a microwave after you put it in ziploc bags works for killing the bugs?
Am I right in assuming the eggs come with the flour as in the are already there?
That was always my understanding from bio.101, 60 yrs. age. I would think, at least state side today, with all of the processing that it may kill the eggs or us.
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Old 17-02-2016, 10:07   #79
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Re: Rice and other long-term rations storage

a64-
Food Irradiation: What You Need to Know
Gamma rays, x-rays, or electron beams. Anything that is considered "ionizing radiation" will do the trick.

So actually if you put your food through the airport x-ray machine and ask them to crank it up and check real thoroughly, you can get your food sterilized (and your electronics destroyed) all for free courtesy of the TSA. (And here I thought there was nothing to be gained by having all those x-rays done.(G)
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Old 17-02-2016, 10:22   #80
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Re: Rice and other long-term rations storage

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...
I am also assuming the irradiated food, like the long life milk is irradiated with some form of radiation other than microwave?
Microwave ovens use, well, microwave radiation to heat up the water and "cook" stuff. Stuff could be meat, veggies, water, popcorn or bugs.

Irradiated food, I just had to fact check myself, uses ionizing radiation to kill the bad stuff. I don't know if you can get irradiated food in the US. Too many people would be against it even though it would prevent quite a few deaths and illnesses due to food poisoning. Irradiated foods are not made radioactive by the process.

Long life milk is just pasteurized at high temperatures for a given period of time. I don' think this is done with microwaves but I suppose it could be since the process just heats the milk.

Later,
Dan
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Old 17-02-2016, 10:28   #81
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Re: Rice and other long-term rations storage

Great....

This dang topic has gotten a song running through my head...

This might be too US specific since the song is from the TV show COPS...
...
Bad bugs, bad bugs whatcha gonna do?
Whatcha gonna do when they come for you?
Bad bugs, bad bugs whatcha gonna do?
Whatcha gonna do when they come for you?
...

:bi ggrin:

Ok, the song says boys not bugs. But it is still mind worming it's way in my head...

Later,
Dan
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Old 17-02-2016, 10:31   #82
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Re: Rice and other long-term rations storage

I didn't know that about the Milk, we used to get it in the Army, and we just assumed it had been irradiated. Hard to find in the US, common or used to be in Europe?
Your probably right though, most US citizens don't have enough sense to realize irradiated, doesn't mean radioactive.
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Old 17-02-2016, 10:43   #83
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Re: Rice and other long-term rations storage

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Microwave ovens use, well, microwave radiation to heat up the water and "cook" stuff. Stuff could be meat, veggies, water, popcorn or bugs.

Irradiated food, I just had to fact check myself, uses ionizing radiation to kill the bad stuff. I don't know if you can get irradiated food in the US. Too many people would be against it even though it would prevent quite a few deaths and illnesses due to food poisoning. Irradiated foods are not made radioactive by the process.

Long life milk is just pasteurized at high temperatures for a given period of time. I don' think this is done with microwaves but I suppose it could be since the process just heats the milk.

Later,
Dan
Dan, We don't want to glow in the dark. I know that is BS but it is probably our nuts that believe that. Want an irrational group, we have one for everything.

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Old 17-02-2016, 10:58   #84
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Re: Rice and other long-term rations storage

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I didn't know that about the Milk, we used to get it in the Army, and we just assumed it had been irradiated. Hard to find in the US, common or used to be in Europe?
...
We first found UHT milk back in the 1980s when we would go sailing.

I am pretty sure that I have seen UHT milk in our local grocery store. Given we live in a small town, the store is on the small side compared to city stores, I was surprised to see the UHT milk.

We saw UHT milk in Hong Kong and I am pretty sure I saw it in mainland China. For some odd reason we were fascinated by looking at what was for sale in the grocery and Walmart type stores in China. We actually went to a Walmart in China. Which was kinda surreal. Smelled like Walmart. Looked like Walmart. But signs were not in English. Best of all, no Walmartians like we see in the US.

Later,
Dan
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Old 17-02-2016, 14:24   #85
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Re: Rice and other long-term rations storage

UHT milk is not irradiated:
Ultra-high temperature processing (UHT), or ultra-heat treatment, sterilizes food by heating it above 135 C (275 F) – the temperature required to kill spores in milk – for 1 to 2 seconds.
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Old 17-02-2016, 19:39   #86
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Rice and other long-term rations storage

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scientific paper . . . . so apparently, if done 'correctly', microwaving will kill all the bugs, including their eggs.

I am not up enough on microwaves to know from that paper if we can do it 'correctly' with our home microwaves or if a special industrial machine is needed. Anyone knowledgeable enough to answer that question?

I went ahead and read the study you linked. The power levels and frequencies are consistent with a consumer microwave oven. In fact, the power levels they describe are actually about 50 percent, give or take, from a home models full rated output. They do appear to be using some sort of industrial machine which probably has multiple magnetrons to insure even distribution of the beam. So that would be your challenge with a consumer machine. You would have to account for hot spots somehow. The study references a test where 100% mortality was achieved with 500W at 80 seconds or so. That's assuming fairly low moisture content of your grain. Higher moisture content in your grain will absorb microwave energy and be less effective I suspect (and also risk damaging the grain).

What seemed more promising from your article was the section on oxygen elimination. Using a heavier than air shielding gas like argon to fill your air tight storage container looks like it would have a 100% mortality rate as well (assuming you left it alone for the requisite time). They used CO2 but I don't see why other oxygen displacing gasses wouldn't work. Carrying a couple of cans of Bloxygen might be worthwhile.
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Old 17-02-2016, 19:53   #87
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Re: Rice and other long-term rations storage

All that's in those oxygen absorber packets is iron filings and salt.
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Old 17-02-2016, 20:13   #88
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Re: Rice and other long-term rations storage

Uneven heating in a consumer microwave shouldn't be a problem, just give the "food" a quarter turn and move it over 2" in any direction every once in a while, if you don't have one of those carousel nuisances.


And CO2 is an easy choice: Every pizza shop and pub gets tanks of it from some local supplier, every welding shop...it is very cheap and very readily available. Something like argon is not going to be found at the local pizzeria.(G)


Matter of fact, if you have one of those home soda syphon making machines...there you go, CO2 supply already on hand.
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Old 18-02-2016, 09:09   #89
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Re: Rice and other long-term rations storage

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And CO2 is an easy choice: Every pizza shop and pub gets tanks of it from some local supplier, every welding shop...it is very cheap and very readily available. Something like argon is not going to be found at the local pizzeria.(G)
I've heard some people express concern about using "non-food-grade" CO2 for food-related uses.

My understanding is that the standards for welding gas are higher than those for food. But even if that turns out to not be the case, the only contaminant that you might find in CO2 is HS. And there's simply no way anyone with a nose is going to accidentally expose themselves to dangerous levels of HS through CO2 contamination.
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Old 18-02-2016, 11:17   #90
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Re: Rice and other long-term rations storage

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Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
Uneven heating in a consumer microwave shouldn't be a problem, just give the "food" a quarter turn and move it over 2" in any direction every once in a while, if you don't have one of those carousel nuisances.


And CO2 is an easy choice: Every pizza shop and pub gets tanks of it from some local supplier, every welding shop...it is very cheap and very readily available. Something like argon is not going to be found at the local pizzeria.(G)


Matter of fact, if you have one of those home soda syphon making machines...there you go, CO2 supply already on hand.
If you are long distance cruising where provisioning (as discussed in this thread) is a concern I'm not sure CO2 is going to be plentiful. Additionally, I'm not sure I would want to carry a standard 10 or 20lb charged CO2 cylinder in the boat since that, in my mind, makes the cabin a confined space hazard. But, those issues aside, you are right, CO2 would also fit the bill as a heavier than air, oxygen displacing gas.
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