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Old 18-01-2016, 18:16   #61
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Re: Rice and other long-term rations storage

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Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
Mat, rats, critters all know how to chew through ziplock bgs, which do a poor job of keeping things air-tight anyway. Even the "freezer" grade are air-permeable.


But you can get all sorts of pasta sauce and "canned" peaches, etc. in the store, in jars that are basically mason cars with one-piece lids. That, or real mason jars, does the best job of really sealing things up. (And stands up by itself.)


Putting a couple of bay leaves (which AFAIK are simply laurel leaves sold at $1200 per pound ?! once they get to the spice shelf) into a bag of flour or rice is also supposed to discourage or kill weavils and other small critters. Never heard anything but praise for it, fwiw.
Microwaving, or hard freezing, will also kill critters, but a couple of bay leaves are simpler. Now, if you have paprika on board...UGH. Do critters like to get into that! Seal it up tight, and that's one you might very well want to microwave unless you've bought it from a very reputable source.
Im not sure where you are buying bay leaves for 1200 per lbs. Me thinks ye been had!

Frontier Bay brand on Amazon is 17.00 for a lbs. That price is quite high too. You might get a better price in an Indian market.

http://www.amazon.com/Frontier-Whole...ulk+bay+leaves
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Old 18-01-2016, 19:02   #62
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Re: Rice and other long-term rations storage

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Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post

Putting a couple of bay leaves (which AFAIK are simply laurel leaves sold at $1200 per pound ?! once they get to the spice shelf)

Fortunately this is the internet and there are people like me to correct people like you!

Bay leaves are a rip off in more ways than 1. Leaves from just about any edible tree are called bay leaves
Here's a list...

Quote:
Bay leaf (plural bay leaves) refers to the aromatic leaves of several plants used in cooking. These include:

Bay laurel (Laurus nobilis, Lauraceae). Fresh or dried bay leaves are used in cooking for their distinctive flavor and fragrance. The leaves are not meant to be eaten, although it is safe to do so. The leaves are often used to flavor soups, stews, braises and pts in Mediterranean cuisine. The fresh leaves are very mild and do not develop their full flavor until several weeks after picking and drying.[1]


California bay leaf the leaf of the California bay tree (Umbellularia californica, Lauraceae), also known as California laurel, Oregon myrtle, and pepperwood, is similar to the Mediterranean bay laurel, but has a stronger flavor.


Indian bay leaf or malabathrum (Cinnamomum tamala, Lauraceae) is somewhat similar in appearance to the leaves of bay laurel, but is culinarily quite different, having a fragrance and taste similar to cinnamon (cassia) bark, but milder.


Indonesian bay leaf or Indonesian laurel (salam leaf, Syzygium polyanthum, Myrtaceae) is not commonly found outside of Indonesia; this herb is applied to meat and, less often vegetables.[2]


West Indian bay leaf, the leaf of the West Indian bay tree (Pimenta racemosa, Myrtaceae), used culinarily and to produce the cologne called bay rum.


Mexican bay leaf (Litsea glaucescens, Lauraceae).
Taste and aroma
The West Indian one is also called "Christmas Bush" and is pretty tame in flavour... but very inexpensive.
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Old 18-01-2016, 19:59   #63
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Re: Rice and other long-term rations storage

Amazon isn't everywhere.


About ten years ago when Amazon sold books, I was making clam chowder, traditional white chowder, with a friend. I'm pretty sure it was bay leaves that we didn't have at hand, and going out to the supermarket it was something like ten bucks for a 1/2 ounce bottle on the spice shelf.


The only thing that is not blurry about the memory is that whatever the leaf we were looking for was...we wound up going over to the crew's neighbor and getting the two or three leaves we needed, because, yes, from McCormick on the spice shelf the damned stuff WAS priced like a precious metal.


Once upon a time, Roman legionnaires were paid in SALT, because it was more valuable than gold. Funny how some things do and don't ever really change.


Amazon? Oh, you kids. You don't remember when lights bulb had to be changed and cars couldn't drive themselves either, do you? (G)
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Old 18-01-2016, 20:11   #64
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Re: Rice and other long-term rations storage

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Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post

Amazon? Oh, you kids. You don't remember when lights bulb had to be changed and cars couldn't drive themselves either, do you? (G)
Shockingly I recall 10 cent stamps. Meals included on air line flights. And horrors of horrors, cars with fins and Watergate and Vietnam footage on TV.

Amazon or no, the supermarket is the worst place to buy spices. Indian stores, Asian markets and Latiin mercados are the best places. One of my recent purcases was an 8oz bag of fennel seed from the Asian market for 2.49. I dont know what I will do with that much, but I still saved 2 or 3 bucks of supermarket prices for 1 oz or so.
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Old 20-01-2016, 20:01   #65
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Re: Rice and other long-term rations storage

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Amazon or no, the supermarket is the worst place to buy spices. Indian stores, Asian markets and Latiin mercados are the best places. One of my recent purcases was an 8oz bag of fennel seed from the Asian market for 2.49. I dont know what I will do with that much, but I still saved 2 or 3 bucks of supermarket prices for 1 oz or so.
Yep, Indian, Asian and Latin stores have reasonably priced spices. The other thing to try is to look for the Ethic/Asian/Latin section in the grocery store. Amazing the price difference for the same spice. Usually MUCH cheaper in price for far more product.

Flip side is that sometimes the ethnic aisle has higher prices for things like beans yet rice will be cheaper.

I have also found lard ONLY on the Latin aisle.

Later,
Dan
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Old 16-02-2016, 06:12   #66
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Re: Rice and other long-term rations storage

Not sure if this will help anyone or even be interested but i made my own non elect vac sealer...I ordered the mason jar lid sealer from food saver and then went an got a hand vac pump (try harbor fright or auto zone) that a mech uses to pull a vac on brakes...it comes with a vac gauge. I attached a clear plastic tube and I now can pull 25 inches or mercury and it seals and removes all the air. The beauty of it is it non elect and can be stored anywhere. I have just ordered the attachment that food saver sells for there vac bags and i am pretty sure it will work with them as well....
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Old 16-02-2016, 08:54   #67
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Re: Rice and other long-term rations storage

25 inches of vacuum certainly will slow down oxidation, especially if you throw in some oxygen absorbers for the test.


But a real electric vacuum pump, designed for AC and refrigeration, will pull 28-30 inches of vacuum to get essentially ALL the air out. Does it matter?


Remember, the "brake" vacuums are just there to pull brake fluid through the pipes, they are not intended to get all the air out of a "can".
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Old 16-02-2016, 09:08   #68
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Re: Rice and other long-term rations storage

Mine will pull 30 i just stop at 25 and that is greater than what food savers uses..
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Old 16-02-2016, 10:24   #69
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Re: Rice and other long-term rations storage

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I don't eat wheat, pasta, rice, any grains nor beans so I don't have a weevil problem. Yay!

But I do have a large stick of canned food for emergency use - at least 30 days. Before a very long passage I stock up to have emergency food for the mileage at 2 knots. (Actually 2 knots plus 1 day. So if I have a problem it takes the day to fix some jury rig and then to be able to proceed slowly). So for a trans Atlantic canaries to Caribbean 2,500nms @ 2kts = 52 days.

Canned food seems very robust, the cans dont rust, don't roll around.
One can is 5 years old - I bought it in a French supermarket by the picture on the label. But when I got home and googled the translations "Beef Intestines" I chucked it in the grab bag. I hope I never sink!

So:

I always have food aboard for a quick get away and emergencies.
Always fill with fuel when I arrive so I have full tanks so I can leave anytime.
Some people take a week to get going. I can up anchor and sail 1,000nms with 10 minutes notice.

Its much more exciting to be able to go immediately than to be living a 'dead' boat

Sent from a stupid phone that replaces words with weird stuff.
I'd enjoy sailing with you & yes, I have one of those phones tu ! Just one comment, some of my canned stores have rusted at least superficially so I've added moisture absorbing packets at least near stores.
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Old 16-02-2016, 11:57   #70
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Re: Rice and other long-term rations storage

The whole thing about stowing cans is smart. Most are precooked and can be eaten right out of the can if need be. Stow them in the bilge.

Have a steak and have a fresh salad when you can.

Someone had posted Bay Leaf will keep little critters out of things like flour. I believe it may just stop them from hatching out? Aren't I a breath of fresh air with that?
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Old 17-02-2016, 08:23   #71
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Re: Rice and other long-term rations storage

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Someone had posted Bay Leaf will keep little critters out of things like flour. I believe it may just stop them from hatching out? Aren't I a breath of fresh air with that?
Bay leaves make no difference whatsoever, the bugs still hatch when the time is right, then they climb along the bayleaf and look at you when you open the packet!
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Old 17-02-2016, 08:41   #72
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Re: Rice and other long-term rations storage

There seems to be two opinions on microwaving - so I am curious #1 how many of you have done it, and of those of you who have, have any of you ever then gotten bugs (in a clean and sealed container)? Or is there any good cite-able test evidence one way or the other? We never tried microwaving.

After a couple bad experiences our first year or two, beth seemed to mostly be able to avoid bugs, even when we were provisioning for 6 months. She stripped off and left ALL cardboard on the dock, did not let it on the boat at all. For stuff like flour and rice she sifted it into medium sized ziplocks (I guess the theory was if one bag got contaminated that would help [prevent it from contaminating the rest) and then stowed those ziplocks in sealed plastic containers. She did not do anything else fancy - no dry ice or microwaving, or such.
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Old 17-02-2016, 08:43   #73
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Re: Rice and other long-term rations storage

I've read or heard the irradiating flour with a microwave after you put it in ziploc bags works for killing the bugs?
Am I right in assuming the eggs come with the flour as in the are already there?
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Old 17-02-2016, 09:25   #74
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Re: Rice and other long-term rations storage

Scientific paper . . . Microwave Heating as an Alternative Quarantine Method for Disinfestation of Stored Food Grains

So, apparently microwaving, if done 'correctly, will in fact kill all the bugs, including the eggs. `
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Old 17-02-2016, 09:27   #75
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Re: Rice and other long-term rations storage

scientific paper . . . . so apparently, if done 'correctly', microwaving will kill all the bugs, including their eggs.

I am not up enough on microwaves to know from that paper if we can do it 'correctly' with our home microwaves or if a special industrial machine is needed. Anyone knowledgeable enough to answer that question?
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