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Old 11-08-2017, 13:44   #91
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Re: Propane vs Alcohol Stove

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Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
Do you have to elevate the 20lb filling cylinder when you do this masonc? Does it drain from one tank to the other via pressure difference?

I have a steel horizontal tank which is sometimes hard to get filled b/c it spooks some propane service folks. It's an unusual shape and is 22 lb.

I'm thinking of getting a standard 20lb tank to use as my fill tank and then fill my horizontal tank from this one.
I'm afraid you won't empty it once the tanks equalize pressure. The dealer pumps it in. opening the relief valve till it spits out liquid. JMHO
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Old 11-08-2017, 13:49   #92
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Re: Propane vs Alcohol Stove

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Or use a scale - propane is sold by weight.
Yep, a fish scale, the kind you hold up and hang the fish on. And you can figure out how much is left in the tank by weighing it.

As for cylinders, fiberglass and aluminum are nice, but with the common steel ones, you can just exchange them and be on your way. And if your old one has begun to rust, that becomes the company's problem. You get an inspected and painted one for your boat.
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Old 11-08-2017, 13:50   #93
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Re: Propane vs Alcohol Stove

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I'm afraid you won't empty it once the tanks equalize pressure. ...
Yes, pressure doesn't work, but the propane is a liquid while under pressure, so all you do is elevate one tank (on a bench) and turn it upside down to pour the liquid propane (runs slowly through the reducers) into the tank on the floor. Doesn't take long.
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Old 11-08-2017, 13:53   #94
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Re: Propane vs Alcohol Stove

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Yes, pressure doesn't work, but the propane is a liquid while under pressure, so all you do is elevate one tank (on a bench) and turn it upside down to pour the liquid propane (runs slowly through the reducers) into the tank on the floor. Doesn't take long.
If you cool the empty it works faster, and I always release the bleed screw. You lose a little propane but not so much if you cool the tank.
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Old 11-08-2017, 15:05   #95
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Re: Propane vs Alcohol Stove

Thanks masonc, nevis. Much appreciate the info. Gonna try it out next fill. My boat has a custom cradle for my oddly shaped horizontal steel tank. It's perfect for the boat, but is hard to get refilled. Using a standard tank as a transfer vessel should work.
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Old 11-08-2017, 15:11   #96
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Re: Propane vs Alcohol Stove

When reading this thread, I was reminded of this incident from last year.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...al-180029.html
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Old 12-08-2017, 12:39   #97
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Re: Propane vs Alcohol Stove

You needn't go to last year - try last week:

Tragedy in Ensenada - Cruising Anarchy - Sailing Anarchy Forums

Good photos of a bad experience, and death of a cruiser.

Propane explosions happen too frequently. If everyone using propane kept their systems updated and maintained it would be rare. Or use something else...

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Old 12-08-2017, 21:32   #98
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Re: Propane vs Alcohol Stove

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When reading this thread, I was reminded of this incident from last year.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...al-180029.html
In the interests of balance, Lets include this.
No Cookies | NT News

Its not clear in the story , Balladeir has an ALCOHOL STOVE.

Phil was out of action for many months.
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Old 12-08-2017, 21:46   #99
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Re: Propane vs Alcohol Stove

Thanks for this seaslug, do you have any info about how this unfortunate accident happened. I did once have a alcohol priming bottle explode on me when I stupidly tried to restart a hot kero burner. Since then I have been a bit less blase about meths..
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Old 12-08-2017, 21:47   #100
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Re: Propane vs Alcohol Stove

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Its not clear in the story , Balladeir has an ALCOHOL STOVE.
Frankly, nothing is clear from that story.

I have never heard of alcohol containers blowing up - and I have carried several gallons aboard in plastic gallon, or 4 to 5 liter, containers (which I wouldn't do if I thought it was an issue).

The typical alcohol accident happens when a burner runs out of fuel and the operator starts refilling before the burner cools. The result can be very serious burns from the sudden ignition and the spilling of fuel. Sometimes the boat catches fire. All very bad. But I have never heard of alcohol causing an explosion like propane, where the boat disintegrates, bodies are shattered, and adjacent boats are damaged.

Greg

Edit: While I was writing an example came in - unfortunately not an isolated incident.
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Old 12-08-2017, 21:51   #101
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Re: Propane vs Alcohol Stove

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...Its not clear in the story , Balladeir has an ALCOHOL STOVE. Phil was out of action for many months.
Interesting - can you tell us how a bottle of alcohol was able to explode? Makes little sense, unless maybe this was a pressurised alcohol-stove tank, which, as several people have pointed out, can be almost as dangerous as propane.
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Old 12-08-2017, 22:02   #102
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Re: Propane vs Alcohol Stove

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I did once have a alcohol priming bottle explode on me when I stupidly tried to restart a hot kero burner.
I found priming bottles to be very inconvenient, and of course very dangerous around hot burners. I was lucky enough to get some of the last Tilley wicks in England in 1997, and I assume they are no longer available. A wick has two kidney shaped brass pockets with a wick (asbestos?) folded into each, and held together by a bit of steel springy wire. I store them (2) in a small jam jar half filled with alcohol. When needed I pull one out and clamp it around the base of the burner, then light. When it burns low I pull it off and use the last of the flame to light the burner. If I forget and the flame burns out I either use the other one or wait a minute for the wick to cool before putting it back in the jar, then out and clamp. Sometimes the burner is still hot enough for a small flareup but nothing exciting, much less dangerous. With the jar kept away from the stove there is no quantity of alcohol to burn.

I haven't worked out what to do next as my wicks are falling apart...

Greg
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Old 12-08-2017, 22:26   #103
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Re: Propane vs Alcohol Stove

Propane can be dangerous - make sure the install is up to snuff and use the solenoid like your life depends on it. ('cause it does)

Pressure alcohol is dangerous - don't use it.

I really like the idea of an all electric galley. Maybe in my future.

Origo type stoves are really quite safe, may be a bit less heat than propane.

I have an Origo. Seems to make coffee just as fast (or close) to the propane in my motorhome. I like the Origo. It's braindead simple. Nothing goes boom. refuel outside and you can't start a fire unless you really try hard to. It cooks bacon and eggs just fine. Boils water just fine. Fuel is available at any paint or hardware store. I've even burnt stuff on it, so it definitely gets hot.

Funny thing is, I carry quite a few 1lb propane bottles with me for the grill (on the rail) and my Lehr dingy motor. I store them in a cockpit locker that doesn't drain to the bilge - leaky bottles will drain to the cockpit and out the scuppers. Even then, propane still scares me. I've blown up 1lb tanks out in the desert, and that's a pretty dang big boom.
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Old 13-08-2017, 05:08   #104
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Re: Propane vs Alcohol Stove

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Originally Posted by CarinaPDX View Post
I found priming bottles to be very inconvenient, and of course very dangerous around hot burners. I was lucky enough to get some of the last Tilley wicks in England in 1997, and I assume they are no longer available. (SNIP)

I haven't worked out what to do next as my wicks are falling apart...

Greg
lucky you, I never managed to source any when I had a kero stove. After my minor explosion I was much more careful. The cause was simple, an almost empty vapor filled priming bottle and a hot burner. The flame flashed back into my empty priming bottle and ignited the alcohol vapours inside. There was a big bang and bits of melted plastic flew around the boat. Fortunately there was no meths left, so there was no fire but my ears were ringing for days afterward and my ego was hurt.

Once I got both burners working on the taylors I could switch to the cold burner if I had a mis start. I didn't have another issue, but those wicks looked like a great idea. Maybe taylors still sells them?

I did like many aspects of the kero stove. I'd consider say one kero burner and a origo style burner. Two fuels, but it would work out as a good mix of convenience and economy. Use the meths for a quick cuppa during the day and simmering, but use the cheaper kerosine for cooking the main meal and dishes water.
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Old 13-08-2017, 06:54   #105
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Re: Propane vs Alcohol Stove

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Originally Posted by CarinaPDX View Post
... I was lucky enough to get some of the last Tilley wicks in England in 1997, and I assume they are no longer available ...
Preheating wick: Preheating wick TAYLOR'S Burner by TAYLOR'S at Toplicht
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