Propane vs Alcohol Stove

[Blue Crab]

What's funny, peculiar, is that firemen have been carrying F/G compressed air tanks for years. The technology works.

[pressuredrop]

4 years full time with a shipmate gravity alcohol stove, not origo style, real burners, too safe and simple to change...

Pro tip: buy your denatured in 5 gal buckets from a fiberglass supply place or big time solvent distributor

In south fla 5 gals is 45$ in Annapolis I can get it for 37$... 8 per gallon makes.it affordable. A gallon get me 3 weeks full time. I keep 10 to 15 on board

[hamburking]

Originally Posted by NevisDog

Ah, Mike, compressed propane is a liquid too ... but I get what you mean. We have a box on the pushpit that held two small gas bottles, but we have an entire cabin where we can store any amount of alcohol - just load up where it's cheap.

Agree.

Your propane tank takes up the same amount of space if it is full, empty, or in between. As I use up alcohol, the containers are removed from the boat (recycled plastic).

As I have said before, I have installed an origo (or cookmate) on almost every sailboat I've owned.

I found that a single 4 litre jug ($9.99 cdn) of fuel was much more than enough for an entire season. And to be clear, I prefer to anchor, don't eat out much, drink lots of hot coffee, cook every day, and its for a whole family.

Personally, I transfer the alcohol to smaller SIGG fuel bottles. Again, super safe. See pic attached. I use the silver ones and use the no spill pour spout seen in the picture. I even tie it to my bottle, just like the picture.

When Jessica Watson sailed alone, non-stop around the world, she used a "meth stove", which I believe was an origo. At the end of her trip, she said she still had enough stove fuel left over "to go around again".

And I want to mention again that alcohol has other uses, like first aid, cleaning solvent, fire starter (campfire, bonfire), and paint thinner.

[hamburking]

I did once witness, close up, an origo stove fire.

I was at a dock at cedar island near Kingston, and a fellow came alongside nearby. He said he had just bought the boat and really did not know what he was doing. In hindsight, I totally believe him. He pulled out his origo 1500 one burner portable stove and put it on a picnic table and started to prepare supper for his crew. While his crew was busy chopping, peeling, and whatnot, he opened a new litre of fuel, and poured it directly into the fuel pot, without removing it from the stove, with generous spillage all around. Well, you guessed it, when he lit the stove all the spillage lit too.

Before I continue, every origo owner knows you remove the fuel pot to fill it. This fire was entirely due to laziness/stupidness and was 100% avoidable. He even later admitted he knew he should have removed the fuel pot.

So the stove is on fire. But its a cool fire, not an explosion or roaring. A very slow, dull fire. He moves his supper stuff away and watches it burn, waiting for the spillage to burn off. He goes and looks for something on his boat, then comes over to me and asks if I have a fire extinguisher he can "borrow". I fetch him a fire extinguisher and tell him he can keep it, no problem. He goes and puts out the fire with a couple quick blasts. Again in hindsight, he could have used a bucket of water to put it out, or the beer which never left his hand.

The fire really did no damage, since open alcohol does burn cool. The wood picnic table did not ignite. The only damage was the plastic knob on the stove...which melted into a blob.

He cleaned up the area, and the stove. And here is the cool part...he lit the stove again and continued cooking his supper. Since the control knob was melted off, he used a pair of pliers to turn the remaining shaft...and looked very pleased with himself for figuring out how to do that. The entire rest of the stove is made of stainless steel and was totally undamaged.

[SecondBase]

[QUOTE]Again in hindsight, he could have used a bucket of water to put it out, or the beer which never left his hand.[\QUOTE]

A clear sense of priorities.

The entire rest of the stove is made of stainless steel and was totally undamaged.

Those replacements knobs are expensive though.

The refilling need drops once you realize to fill up to the lower rim of the side-turned burner and once you put plastic covers over the burners to block evaporation loss.

I use an old Heinz ketchup squeeze bottle for refills.

No idea how to use this quote format correctly.

[Blue Crab]

I've settled on a clear plastic squeeze siphon from the gallon can for refills.

[SecondBase]

Originally Posted by Blue Crab

I've settled on a clear plastic squeeze siphon from the gallon can for refills.

That actually sounds like an upgrade since it removes any transfer or spillage. Do you have a photo or link to what you're using?

[Thuid]

Any flammable fuel source that produces a vapor or is a gas at atmospheric temperatures/pressures, and is contained to some degree is a risk for explosion. A look at any MSDS (Material Safety Datasheet) LEL (Lower Explosive Limit) will tell you this. Even wood will produce vapors and be a explosion risk if heated hot enough as many firefighters know.

As long as a healthy respect, proper installation and due diligence is observed, most fuels can be used safely. But than again as someone else pointed out "You can't cure stupidity", as well as the unfortunate lapses in judgment which we are all sometimes prone too. They both result in the deadly encounters with fires and/or explosions we see in news releases and statistics, both on the water or on dry land.

When comparing fuel sources/burners, what matters is the BTU that can be transferred into the cooking vessel within the users desired time. As well as the comfort level of the user with the fuel source and cooking methods they wish to employ. Some lower BTU fuels which will take longer to get desired results and limit higher temperature cooking, while others work well for higher temperature cooking but are difficult to control at the lower end.

It all comes down to the user and their preferences as well as their comfort level with whatever fuel. Just give it the due respect it requires or you may be just another statistic.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by NevisDog

Ah, Mike, compressed propane is a liquid too ... but I get what you mean. We have a box on the pushpit that held two small gas bottles, but we have an entire cabin where we can store any amount of alcohol - just load up where it's cheap.

Thanks. Yes, the basic point is you can carry a heck of a lot more btus in a much smaller volume with propane. Whether that matters would depend on each individual set up and how long you are off the dock.

I've used alcohol and I don't think the cooking is functionally any slower -- only for boiling a big pot of water. Other than that most foods do not require blast-furnace temps.

[Blue Crab]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

... I've used alcohol and I don't think the cooking is functionally any slower -- only for boiling a big pot of water. Other than that most foods do not require blast-furnace temps.

I usually get distracted by the next shiny thing, then see that the water is boiling.

This works well for me:

[leftbrainstuff]

No brainer propane.

I can't imagine any scenario where I'd want to mess about with alcohol or kerosene. I spent a childhood dealing with kero and alcohol stoves and heaters. I even worked with methanol fueled vehicles in my motorsport career.

Propane is perfectly safe. Where issues arise is in maintenance and installation. Anyone who builds a dodgy propane install would be just as dangerous with alcohol or kero based systems.

A bottle inside the vessel is not an appropriate installation. Tank lockers should have no gas path to the interior, they should be vented and have gravity drains. Gas shutoff valves, gas fittings and hose and correct routing and inspection are the minimum required.

Propane, butane and blends vary around the planet. Apart from occasionally changing jets and not having the correct fitting propane is my preferred option.

FWIW. I was engaged to address safety issues for a new naval ship platform some years ago. On day 1 I was faced with 2 critical safety issues that had been escalated to chief of navy.

They were high probability of death due to the use and storage of alcohol and lead acid batteries. Alcohol was used to maintain optics clarity and agm batteries were used to run and as backup for mission and safety critical systems.

Long story short. Engineers who should have known better had used 'internet stories' as safety evidence and created hysteria. This was a warship and they were concerned about methanol and agm batteries. Ridiculous.

I created two books of knowledge, anchored in scientific fact and empirical evidence to resolve these issues. There is so much FUD about propane, alcohols, kerosene and lead acid batteries on the web.

[goat]

Carrying a case of alcohol industriale from the hardware store in Santa Rosalia back to my boat is kind of a pain in the ass. But when I had to pack my propane tank to refill in Blaine, I had to carry it both ways.
Origo works when batteries are dead. No bypasses needed, no fuel lines, no sniffers (well OK, CO monitor), no solenoids, no vented storage areas, no recertifications, no changing fittings every couple of years or when you travel to another country.
If you run out of fuel while cooking, you use the other burner. Heat output slowly decreases, so you always have a heads up before running out of fuel.
Seems to me, there are a lot less propane filling stations and a lot more tank swap stations. How does that work when travelling?
I'll stick with the simplicity of Origo even if it takes 40 seconds more for my morning coffee.

A simple goat, on a simple boat.

[Thuid]

I am also curious about others cruising experience with the new fad of exchange-a-tank places instead of the traditional fill stations that seem to be popping up everywhere. I am sure that a tank from Wally-Mart would be exchangeable anywhere in North America, but what about other company exchanges let alone international. I know a few places here in Canada that some companies will not accept generic or other companies tanks for exchange. If you are not part of their program, than you have to buy a new tank from them.

Definitely seems alcohol stoves may have an advantage in a few years if propane keeps going they way it is. Unless you do a home made fill Jerry-rig, but than what do you do with the local tank after you fill yours?

[Blue Crab]

Guessing mega marinas might someday sell propane but my last had exchange (same company ) tanks. Gimme the simple life.

Me and my composting head, hard dinghy, hanked- on head sails, howling AirX, local restaurant-supplied internet that I get on the boat, and 6 OTA tv stations: Salt life on my (29' ft version) Cal 40.

[Cadence]

The best thing I recall about alcohol was the smell of bacon and eggs while I was still in the bunk circa 47. The stove had a unique odor.