propane tanks replace or refill?

[conachair]

Originally Posted by Mark10

Hi All,

How is it working with propane tanks on the way?
Can you fill up or do you have to replace the tank and leave your empty tank at the gas company?
And what kind of thanks are the most common? I know there are different connections, how do you deal with that?
It would be nice to bring some of the new plastic 25 L. tanks as shown in the picture. But then i like to refill instead of replace, like i do here in the Netherlands, fill up with LPG. So what is the best and what is your experience.

How difficult is it to get your tanks full on the way?

Thank you, Mark.

I just got 2 of the gaslight bottles like the one in your photo, after the confusingly named gaslite bottle recall ended in getting rid of them.
Not cheap, but a kit like this..
GasBOAT 4018 Marine Universal Gas Cylinder Adaptor Kit at SOCAL
will allow you fill your bottle from any other. So they say, it's worked for me so far. Hang one upside down from the boom and let the gas drip slowly into the empty bottle. Plastic bottles are great as you can see how much gas is in there. I still got a propane regulator as it was easier to source the some more adaptor bits to use a dual propane/butane regulator but will get those bits before heading off cruising again. Then i can refill from any bottle if direct filling isn't possible. Saved me the cost of the kit within a year as I couldn't get the US style bottles I had at the time filled and was stuck using eyewatering expensive camping gas.

[Mark10]

Originally Posted by conachair

I just got 2 of the gaslight bottles like the one in your photo, after the confusingly named gaslite bottle recall ended in getting rid of them.
Not cheap, but a kit like this..
GasBOAT 4018 Marine Universal Gas Cylinder Adaptor Kit at SOCAL
will allow you fill your bottle from any other. So they say, it's worked for me so far. Hang one upside down from the boom and let the gas drip slowly into the empty bottle. Plastic bottles are great as you can see how much gas is in there. I still got a propane regulator as it was easier to source the some more adaptor bits to use a dual propane/butane regulator but will get those bits before heading off cruising again. Then i can refill from any bottle if direct filling isn't possible. Saved me the cost of the kit within a year as I couldn't get the US style bottles I had at the time filled and was stuck using eyewatering expensive camping gas.

Looks like a nice set. But i think i can do the same trick with local connection and your own connection. Like Jim Cate posted.
I didn't think about the fact that you can see straight trough the plastic bottle to see the level of gas there is left.
If i go for plastic, I will take the latest version. Or aluminium but they are expensive here and you can't see trough...

[wsmurdoch]

The Camping Gaz to US POL LPG adaptors are Trident Rubber Part Nos.1195-1615 and 1190-1625. In the US Defender and West Marine both carry them.

When draining LPG through a hose from one cylinder to another the process can be greatly speeded by warming the upper full inverted cylinder and/or cooling the lower empty upright cylinder. Putting a black plastic bag over the upper cylinder in the sun and/or putting ice cubes on top of the lower cylinder will raise the pressure in the upper and/or lower the pressure in the lower cylinder.

Aside from the ever present risk of leaks, there are two other risks in pouring LPG from one cylinder to another. First, the upper inverted cylinder has its relief valve below the surface of the liquid LPG. If the relief valve were to open, large amounts of liquid would escape without cooling the cylinder. This is different from an upright cylinder where smaller amounts of escaping gas will cool the cylinder as the liquid LPG in the cylinder boils to replace the escaped gas thus allowing the relief valve to re-close. Second, if the lower cylinder does not have an overfill protection device or if the OPD fails, the lower cylinder might be overfilled not leaving the head space needed for expansion of the LPG as it warms. So, check for leaks, make sure things don't get too warm, do your sums, and as always do this sort of thing in a place where if something went wrong...

[Roy M]

I use the aluminum, horizontal 20# tanks, 2 of them, stored in the wet lockers over the underwing of my trimaran. They last a couple months, each, when heavily used. I am now enamored by the new Lehr propane outboards, so I'm considering more tanks and storage for them. Apparently, LPG is becoming the world standard portable fuel for small appliances. One can refill the tanks by using a full bottle, above the empty bottle, and using a length of rubber hose and the appropriate connectors, transfer from one to the other. You have to remove your cigar first, and set it up so that LIQUID PHASE product is being transferred, not the gas phase. That means knowing where the pickup pipe is located on the full and empty bottles, and how to vent the bottle being filled. I leave it to those who have made up the adaptors to share with us the combinations for different countries and continents. It's too much to ask suppliers to have one simple standard. It has to be more of a challenge, like AC electrical plugs, to keep the riff-raff from mucking up the exchange of services for cash.

A trick learned from refilling my Sodastream CO2 cylinders is to very partially fill the empty tank with liquid phase gas, shut off the upper, filler tank, then open the empty tank vent to suddenly discharge the contained gas below. It creates an ice-cold empty tank that accepts the liquid phase more completely, resulting in fuller tanks. A portable scale can accurately assist in when the tank is completely full or overfilled. If too much, then vent some off.

Oh, yeah, I forgot about the positions of the bottles. The empty tank has to have the vent in the normally "up" position so that only gas phase escapes. The filler tank must either be inverted or otherwise positioned so that the pickup drains liquid phase, not gas phase, into the empty tank. The first time is scary, because you have no idea what is happening. The next time is a snap. Just make sure you have extinguished all possible sources of ignition. It would, otherwise, ruin your whole day.

[TaoJones]

The composite, see-thru tanks manufactured by the Lite Cylinder Company of Franklin, Tennessee are the ones recalled. The recall order stated that those who own Lite Cylinder tanks should return them to the manufacturer, however Lite Cylinder opted to close its doors and declare bankruptcy instead.

As a result, anyone owning Lite Cylinder tanks can neither return them to the store where they were purchased (since the store can't return them to Lite Cylinder), return them directly to Lite Cylinder, nor can they continue to use them as they can't legally be refilled. Of course, there will be those who will take your money to refill these tanks . . . just be aware that huge liability could potentially attach in the event an unfortunate accident were to occur post-recall and someone was injured or killed as a result.

Here's the story (19 June 2013) in The Tennessean: Franklin propane tank manufacturer closes after recall | The Tennessean | tennessean.com

And here's the original recall story (18 June 2013) from the Tailgating site: RECALL: Propane tanks made by Lite Cylinder Co. | Tailgating Ideas - Don't Just Tailgate, Tailgate Better

TaoJones

[Mark10]

Originally Posted by TaoJones

The composite, see-thru tanks manufactured by the Lite Cylinder Company of Franklin, Tennessee are the ones recalled. The recall order stated that those who own Lite Cylinder tanks should return them to the manufacturer, however Lite Cylinder opted to close its doors and declare bankruptcy instead.

As a result, anyone owning Lite Cylinder tanks can neither return them to the store where they were purchased (since the store can't return them to Lite Cylinder), return them directly to Lite Cylinder, nor can they continue to use them as they can't legally be refilled. Of course, there will be those who will take your money to refill these tanks . . . just be aware that huge liability could potentially attach in the event an unfortunate accident were to occur post-recall and someone was injured or killed as a result.

Here's the story (19 June 2013) in The Tennessean: Franklin propane tank manufacturer closes after recall | The Tennessean | tennessean.com

And here's the original recall story (18 June 2013) from the Tailgating site: RECALL: Propane tanks made by Lite Cylinder Co. | Tailgating Ideas - Don't Just Tailgate, Tailgate Better

TaoJones

I don't know if the Lite Cylinder Tanks are the same as the tanks sold here in the Netherlands. Do you know?
But refill will be hard anyway in other country's where plastic tanks are known as bad tanks.
I think I will take 1 plastic filled up and keep it as a backup. For the other two I will take steel. The plastic I can refill myself.

[TaoJones]

Originally Posted by Mark10

I don't know if the Lite Cylinder Tanks are the same as the tanks sold here in the Netherlands. Do you know?
But refill will be hard anyway in other country's where plastic tanks are known as bad tanks.
I think I will take 1 plastic filled up and keep it as a backup. For the other two I will take steel. The plastic I can refill myself.

I don't know either, Mark. I believe that it was just that one manufacturer who got on the watchdogs' sh*t list by cutting corners in their manufacturing process.

I don't think you'll find that very many, certainly not most, places where you'd go to get a propane tank refilled in the US are even aware of the recall. It can take a long time for such things to sink in with the American populace, typically.

That said, I think your plan of carrying one composite tank and two steel tanks is sensible.

TaoJones

[lonesoldier0408]

I don't think you'll find that very many, certainly not most, places where you'd go to get a propane tank refilled in the US are even aware of the recall. It can take a long time for such things to sink in with the American populace,

Just wondering why noone has gone with on demand HHO. No more tanks or locating a source issue.