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Old 11-09-2007, 04:42   #76
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As did Robin Knox Johnston in his book "A World Of My Own".
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Old 11-09-2007, 08:40   #77
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The key, as Dan mentions, is to start those boxes out with something ice cold in them, to pull down the temperature and help them get started. They can do a decent job of maintaining the 40F difference, they just work a whole lot better if they are loaded with pre-cooled things instead of warm cans.

In many places, if you are sailing in "cool" waters there's another way to cheat and get a cold drink. Buy a mesh bag (laundry bag or diver's bug bag), load in the drinks, drop it on a line about 10-20' so it is below the thermocline. Ten minutes later, you've got nice cold drinks to haul back up.
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Old 15-09-2007, 19:07   #78
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I cruised 15 years without refrigeration. A lot depends on your tastes and what you find easy or hard. Keeping food on hand that needs refrigeration creates a hassle from my point of view. The comments about dried milk, canned butter and fresh eggs are all useful; unwashed eggs keep best in my view. The root vegetables and cabbage keep just fine without ice. Vacum seal is useful for cheese. Yogurt is another item that will keep well for a long time without refrigeration also useful for cooking instead of sour cream. A large bag of fresh onion bought in New Zealand, used one a day for 75 days with only one going bad.
Enjoy.
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Old 18-09-2007, 18:59   #79
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LPG refrigerators for boats? I just read an article on this, forgot where, and wonder if anyone has any experience or opinion on using lpg for the refrigerator. If so, email me at thierman@pacbell.net
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Old 18-09-2007, 20:53   #80
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While I'm here, maybe I'll pick brains a bit.

I have an icebox with a wee cooler jobbie cut into the side by a previous owner. Runs only when I'm hooked up the shore power, but seems to cool things a bit. Makes the ice last longer anyway.

Problem is the box itself is bare fiberglass, with no insulation. (This is a Bob Perry- designed Mirage 27, BTW) Question is: How to insulate a bit?

Don't think I want to put insulation inside, which strikes me as a recipe for unreachable mildew. Outside may be the way to go, but what should be used?

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Old 19-09-2007, 01:26   #81
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Evaporative refrigeration

Thierman: the "lpg" method of cooling is an evaporative cooling method. This method uses a small flame to motivate a cooling cycle rather than a compressor, which means it works without an electrical or engine-driven compressor. These are also built to work using diesel or kerosene fuel.

The modern systems are sensitive to motion; the flame unit needs to be gimbaled to operate on your average sailboat. Other than this vital and complex element, the evaporator system has many advantages including no moving parts (cold air may be moved by fans or controlled ducting, so this may not be true of a specific installation.) There has been less development in small-scale evaporator systems because of the nearly universal use of compressors for this application.

I think the technology is superior for cruising, but a reasonable installation will take up more space (due to the gimbal mechanism) and will need to be custom designed and built - thus probably expensive and requiring higher maintenance for reasonable performance.

Connemara: The usual method is to build the icebox within an insulation box, and the space between filled with a poured foam insulation. Assuming your ice box is already installed an you have no wish to tear apart the cabinetry, consider applying a wrap of styrofoam or other highly insulative foam.
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Old 19-09-2007, 03:12   #82
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There are two basic types of refrigerator: Absorption (Gas or Electric heated) and Compression (Mechanical or Electric driven).

I don’t recommend propane-powered refrigerators on boats.

Absorption refrigerators operate on a heat cycle, normally powered by gas (LPG) burner. A flame or heat element powers the heating cycle, which creates the cooling affect.

As indicated, absorption fridges must be kept level. Different models have different requirements, but in general, 3 - 6 degrees of tilt (in BOTH pitch & roll axis*) is the maximum. A simple gimbal will only level the fridge on one axis.

* Some manufacturers specify 3 deg.of roll (sideways) & 6 deg. (front to back) of Fridge pitch (if oriented bow to stern in the boat).

The combustion products from most propane refrigerators are discharged inside of the cabin. If the burner is not adjusted properly, it can produce deadly carbon monoxide (CO) emissions. Propane-fueled refrigerators must be equipped with a fuel shut-down safety solenoid (operated by a CO detector). Propane fridges require an adequate supply of combustion air.

Compressor refrigerators will work effectively above 50 deg C ambient, and at all temperatures will pull the fridge temperature down more quickly than absorption fridges, which are generally limited to maximum ambient temperatures of about 40 deg C.

The cycle works like this:
The gas absorption refrigerator cools by evaporating liquid ammonia in a hydrogen environment. The gaseous ammonia is then absorbed (dissolved) into water, and then later separated (boiled off from the water) by a small source of heat. This drives off the dissolved ammonia gas which is then condensed into a liquid. The liquid ammonia then enters the hydrogen-charged evaporator to repeat the cycle.

1. Heat is applied to the generator. The heat comes from burning something like liweuid propane gas, or kerosene.
2. In the generator is a solution of ammonia and water. The heat raises the temperature of the solution to the boiling point of the ammonia.
3. The boiling solution flows to the separator. In the separator, the water separates from the ammonia gas.
4. The ammonia gas flows upward to the condenser. The condenser is composed of metal coils and fins that allow the ammonia gas to dissipate its heat and condensed into a liquid.
5. The liquid ammonia makes its way to the evaporator, where it mixes with hydrogen gas and evaporates, producing cold temperatures inside the refrigerator.
6. The ammonia and hydrogen gases flow (by gravity) to the absorber. Here, the water that has collected in the separator is mixed with the ammonia and hydrogen gases.
7. The ammonia forms a solution with the water and releases the hydrogen gas, which flows back to the evaporator. The ammonia-and-water solution flows toward the generator to repeat the cycle.

How Propane Fridges Work:
http://propanefridge.com/en/PDFs/Uni...ridgesCool.pdf
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Old 19-09-2007, 08:48   #83
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The Internet Grocer - Best Prices Storable Foods - Dehydrated emergency supplies
Welcome to Walton Feed, home of your dehydrated food storage needs.

These guys sell food stuffs that need not be kept cold by any means.
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Old 19-09-2007, 14:55   #84
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WOW!
Thanks.

Now I know what I will have on my boat (if I ever get one ).

Awesome to have that when needed.
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Old 22-10-2007, 15:40   #85
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I got by for a while without refrigeration--ate mostly dried food such as lentils, chick peas, fruits and nuts, dates, and dried salted fish and meat with the occasional can of corned meat or sausages. I also sprouted seeds and had vitamin C and multivitamin tablets aboard. UHT and powdered milk are fine and I use them all the time.

After a couple of weeks one begins to crave fresh fruits, green vegetables and fresh meat. Dried rations are fine for emergency rations since it requires no refrigeration, just water for rehydration and washing out salt. Still--one is seldom at sea for more than a couple of weeks at a time. A month on dried rations would not be too much of a worry if the odd fish came aboard.

Considering that solar panels and Waeco fridges are now much more reasonable than they used to be, a small solar/wind powered fridge of 100 litres or so is feasible without having an engine, just a small gel battery will keep the fridge going overnight or on those occasions when there is no sea breeze or land breeze at anchor. In the tropics put extra insulation on and around it, except for the motor and compressor part.

Canned food works well--and if you like to bottle your own stuff, the Fowlers Vacola system works really well except that the glass jars are heavy and the last thing I want aboard are broken glass splinters.

Some smoked sausages and meats will last a long time without refrigeration--but they are a bit of a risk aboard where humidity can be high. If you are salting food, use butchers' salt. It will not absorb excess water from the atmosphere and moisten the food.

I would never use any compressed gas as an evaporating coolant, especially nitrogen or carbon dioxide (dry ice). These might be fine above decks--must never be taken inside a closed space. They will drown people very quickly and the victims will not be aware of what is happening.
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Old 22-10-2007, 19:05   #86
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They will drown people very quickly and the victims will not be aware of what is happening.
ABSTRACT
To assess the effects of carbon dioxide (CO2) in champagne on psychomotor performance and blood-alcohol concentration (BAC). Methods: Twelve subjects consumed ethanol (0.6 g/kg body weight) served as champagne or champagne with the CO2 removed, in a crossover study. Results: Champagne produced significantly greater BACs and significantly increased reaction times in a divided attention task, than degassed champagne. Conclusions: The CO2 in champagne may accelerate absorption of alcohol, leading to more rapid or severe intoxication.


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Old 22-10-2007, 19:37   #87
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Dried beans, lentils and cous cous last forever and can be spiced up a good bit with garlic (also lasts forever), potatoes, onions and the usual suspects. I can't live without canned tomatoes, which go into everything. Generally speaking, potatoes (sweet potatoes, if you can find them), garlic and onions last a long time in a cool, dark place. Once they go south, they REALLY go south. Carrots last pretty well, too. Take a big (1-2 gallon) wide mouth plastic jug and put in cauliflower, onion, cucumber, and peppers in apple cider or wine vinegar with pickling salts or table salt and sugar. They will last a long time, and taste really good. You can put in some hot peppers, if you like caliente.
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Old 23-10-2007, 08:17   #88
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Freeze your beer on land and use it as blocks of ice. Drink when thawed.
Michael
haha and thats your 4 food groups right there
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Old 23-10-2007, 15:15   #89
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Frozen beer-

Just make sure you only freeze the cans--bottles make an awful mess--

Even warm beer is better than no beer--
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Old 24-10-2007, 04:22   #90
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--Even warm beer is better than no beer--
Learning to love warm beverages, including beer, is just part of the apprenticeship all Northerners undertake as they cruise South.
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