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23-12-2005, 23:05

I went back to Gypsy Moth and read through. It is interesting how many of the items matched what was on Sean's list. I find it interesting that technology has not changed in this area.

Jentine · 24-12-2005, 10:25

this is cheaper than ice either by the bag or block.

http://www.sailboatowners.com/gear/d...73264474087.91

I couldn't be bothered hauling ice for $300

Jim

rebel heart · 07-12-2006, 21:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssullivan

I almost put this one, but stopped short. Dry ice is solid CO2. If it evaporates and fills up the cabin at night while you sleep.... you don't wake up.

Make sure you are well vented if you use this.

Not to be lame, but CO2 is a heck of a lot different than CO.

With CO2, you'd wake up with an insanely splitting headache as it doesn't get absorbed by your body. The only way to kill someone with CO2 is to litterly displace enough oxygen; that would require a tremendous amount, far beyond what would happen in even the most remote circumstances. Maybe if you filled the entire cabin up (bilge to overhead, bow to stern), then made the boat airtight somehow.

CO is absorbed by your body, and you're right... it's deadly as hell and you need to have a proper alarm in your cabin to monitor it. But CO2 is truly harmless; I actually can't find a single reference to anyone dying from it.

A bigger problem with dry ice is the fact that it's so frigin cold that it will freeze everything (including beer) and bust all your glass bottles.

rebel heart · 07-12-2006, 21:18

Also:

To the original poster, I'm behind you on the no-fridge thing. I have one right now, but I leave it powered off, even at the marina.

There isn't a single thing that you will ever install on a boat that wont cost you money upfront, maintenance time and costs pretty much starting at day one, and replacement costs eventually.

That being said, I wouldn't sail out of the harbor without having a hot shower system. It's all about what's important to you. Some people think the shower is stupid but the fridge is "necassary".

I once had a guy tell me that a microwave was "mandatory" on a sailboat. I don't even have one at my house!

One clever trick I adopted from a great cruising book (Handbook of Offshore Cruising?) is something like this:

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...uct_id=3942758

It's cheap and small. If you decide you want some cool drinks, plug it in a few hours in advance. There's others on the market too:

http://www.igloocoolers.com/products...lectric2/2429/

I've tried them on car trips and they're fine, but I can't personally speak to how realistic they are for sailing, although the book I read was quite fond of them. For $45, it's worth experimenting.

NoTies · 07-12-2006, 21:27

We've just done a small trial on an American product called Evertfresh. They are bags that work by absorbing and displacing the gases given off during food degradation. Kept broccoli, peppers and zucchini in them and left them out of the fridge for a week in early summer temps. Lost about 1 cc of zucchini but everything else was as fresh s when I bought it. Next trial will be with lettuce both refrigerated and at room temp. Results so far mean we will be eating fresh veges a lot longer than we had previously. Paid about NZ$1 per bag and they are reuseable.
www.evertfresh.com

CSY Man · 08-12-2006, 04:02

I cruised for a while before adding fridge/freezer:
I memory serves correct, I could make the ice last 10 tens by adding layers of block-ice with dry ice in between.

Converted to a 12 volt air cooled system some 5 or 6 years ago and never looked back. It has been virtually maintenance free and the solar panels take care of the amps. (When the sun is up, otherwise a wind generator would do the same)

Would not sail without the fridge again, and the mess of hauling ice and draining the melt water into the bilge, etc..Except for short overnight trips.

ssullivan · 08-12-2006, 06:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by rebel heart

Not to be lame, but CO2 is a heck of a lot different than CO.

With CO2, you'd wake up with an insanely splitting headache as it doesn't get absorbed by your body. The only way to kill someone with CO2 is to litterly displace enough oxygen; that would require a tremendous amount, far beyond what would happen in even the most remote circumstances. Maybe if you filled the entire cabin up (bilge to overhead, bow to stern), then made the boat airtight somehow.

CO is absorbed by your body, and you're right... it's deadly as hell and you need to have a proper alarm in your cabin to monitor it. But CO2 is truly harmless; I actually can't find a single reference to anyone dying from it.

This is exactly the point. "Frozen" CO2 is a heck of a lot of gas all sitting nicely in a little lattice. A boat *is* for all intents and purposes air-tight, as it is also water-tight. Close those hatches for the night, melt a few blocks of CO2 and you might not wake up, given that you have a CO2 to O balance that doesn't sustain human life.

rtbates · 08-12-2006, 07:54

One the best ways to keep ice frozen and stuff cold in an ice box is to add an insulated blanket INSIDE the ice box on top of everything. No sense in cooling the air above. I use the silver coated insulated bubble stuff available at home depot.

And don't try to freeze beer or anything in a sealed can or bottle. It will rupture as the liquid expands as it freezes. We've all heard of the dangers of frozen water pipes! Physics 101. If you freeze water in bottles be sure to leave an air space for expansion.

hellosailor · 08-12-2006, 13:21

An alternative to ultra-pasteurized boxed milk is something that had disappeared from the US market and has only recently come back: Whole powdered milk. Not powdered skim milk, but *whole* powdered milk. It is back in some supermarkets under the brand names "KLIM" and "NIDO" both made by Nestle. And both, oddly enough, are the identical product under two different names. Apparently one is designed for the South American market and the other for Mexico but both are being imported into the "ethnic foods" section in US chains now.
For reasons I won't even guess, I can buy "NIDO" with an all-spanish label that is stocked six feet away from the same NIDO with a bi-lingual label....at 85% of the cost for the exact same containter.
The folks at Nestle kindly pointed out to me that "KLIM" is "MILK" backwards. I resisted the urge to tell them "NIDO" is ODIN backwards, too.<G>

ceberon · 13-12-2006, 13:56

I searched on google a few times, came up with some good links. Here's an example:

The Ocean Cruising Club - Living without a Refrigerator

Anyway, my wife and I are currently planning on skipping the refrigeration, but we'll see what happens when we actually take the leap. Good luck!

savvy · 13-12-2006, 14:30

A friend of mine suggested when i was thinking of getting a fridge on the boat that it would be cheaper to have a taxi deliver ice at each port that to have the extra batteries, generator, solar power, aggravation etc.
He was right!

Amgine · 13-12-2006, 16:17

My boat doesn't have refrigeration, and I've far too many items higher up the priority list to think about adding it yet. And I've never owned a boat with refrigeration, though I wouldn't turn it down if someone offered it ::looks around hopefully::

But, having lived without it... some tips/tricks:

avoid cooled or refrigerated products. That means pretty much the entire local supermarket's produce section. Once cooled, produce is much less able to survive room temperatures. Get produce from local farmers markets, etc., where you ask if the stuff has ever been refrigerated (many farmer's markets are selling you the same stuff as the grocery store, from the same middlemen, so ask first.)
Buy uncleaned eggs direct from a farmer, again without having been refrigerated. The thicker shell will survive at least a week longer. Eggs go bad due to dehydration and the yolk sticking to the shell; rotate them often. I've tried the flash heated eggs (which cooks just a thin layer of the egg white, to keep the egg from dehydrating) and they last the same as uncleaned eggs.
Use the icebox without ice to store non-perishable or low perishable goods. Peanut butter, UHT milk, etc.
Find a deli with hard sausages, hard smoked meats, and cheese in rinds. You'll know what they are because they won't be in a cooler, the cheeses and hams may be hanging in net bags. Experiment with these in your regular recipes in place of hamburger or other meats; they may need more water and less salt.
When removing labels, write date, product on the *end* of the tin, so you can see what it is from above.

Generally, no matter where you go you can find grocery products, so don't spend $5000 or more stocking up on tinned/dried/preserved everything for a 3 year cruise. Take twice as much as your longest passage. Stock up when you get there.

A popular way to avoid water draining into your bilge from the icebox, and at the same time extend your freshwater tankage, is to fill gallon milk jugs with water and freeze them solid. (If you crank down your freezer so it's really damn cold for this task you can make them last quite a bit longer on the boat, and simultaneously cause all those bottles in the 'fridge door to shatter and make a truly stupendous mess...)

Paper products are far more widely available than you might think; don't fill a locker with tp. Feminine hygiene products are generally available as well, but not as universal. Some products are more scarce, depending on your destination, such as paper towels and tissues, which are less available in places that make do with ::gasp:: fabric towels and handkerchiefs.

senormechanico · 13-12-2006, 16:51

Buy the leanest hamburger you can find. Keep the plastic trays that it comes in. Wash them and set aside. Cook the meat, drain what little fat remains by tipping the frying pan while it cools. Spread the hamburger out on paper towels and pat up the last little bit of the fat while breaking up clumps into small grains. When fully cooled, put the cooked meat on the plastic tray and cover it with another plastic tray. Wrap the trays with a couple layers of paper towels and put the whole shebang into a vacuum sealed bag. Vacuum seal it and it will last nearly forever without refrigeration.

The meat will be like little hardened rocks. To use in casseroles etc, simply add a little water and let it soak it up. In an hour or so, (I forget exactly how long) it will reconstitute into fresh tasting hamburger. You will be pleased at how fresh it tastes.

We did this before going to Mexico in '93, stored them under the settee cushions. Nearly a year later we found one of the packages which had lost its vacuum. It had survived a very hot summer with the boat on the hard in Mexico, but the meat was still good.

Steve B.