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Old 15-07-2015, 13:46   #886
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re: Mouthwatering Boat Recipes (mainly plant based)

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Originally Posted by oldragbaggers View Post
I have made the loaf with lentils and although it is not as tasty, in my opinion, as with the tofu and crumbles it is still quite good. But mostly it had a looser texture which I don't like.

I will send you a message with some resources about why I don't eat oil when I get home. I am using my iPhone right now.
Thanks for that info .

I wasn't quizzing you about your personal choices or criticising them (there are so many different view points on what is optimal), just about why the WFPB diet excludes oil. This is what I found onine (echoed on several websites):

"A whole foods plant based (WFPB) diet is based on whole or minimally processed whole grains, legumes, vegetables and fruits. It excludes animal-based foods, including fish and dairy, and also highly processed foods such as oils (that means no olive oil or coconut oil)."

The highlighted part is what I don't understand. Cold compressed extra virgin olive oil is simply the filtered liquid from crushed olives. No other ingredients are used, no chemicals, no heat, the olives are simply crushed. You can't get much less processed than that unless you leave the plant produce totally untouched.

SWL
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Old 15-07-2015, 14:18   #887
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re: Mouthwatering Boat Recipes (mainly plant based)

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Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass View Post
Thanks for that info .

I wasn't quizzing you about your personal choices or criticising them (there are so many different view points on what is optimal), just about why the WFPB diet excludes oil. This is what I found onine (echoed on several websites):

"A whole foods plant based (WFPB) diet is based on whole or minimally processed whole grains, legumes, vegetables and fruits. It excludes animal-based foods, including fish and dairy, and also highly processed foods such as oils (that means no olive oil or coconut oil)."

The highlighted part is what I don't understand. Cold compressed extra virgin olive oil is simply the filtered liquid from crushed olives. No other ingredients are used, no chemicals, no heat, the olives are simply crushed. You can't get much less processed than that unless you leave the plant produce totally untouched.

SWL
There are multiple problems with oils, especially for me, as over 50 years of research shows that fat in the bloodstream is the primary culprit in the MS episodes. My whole journey toward the way I eat now began with the Swank MS Diet which requires a very low intake of fat, particularly saturated fat. And things evolved from there. My last MS relapse was two years ago. I also began the diet two years ago. As long as it is working....I'm sticking with it. I am only one of thousands that have experienced the same result so I don't believe it's a fluke.

But the other side of it is oil offers no nutritional value for anyone, and poses many health risks for everyone (even those "so called healthy" oils like olive and coconut). It is 100% fat, with no vitamins, minerals, carbohydrates or protein. Yes, I know the body needs fat to function, and I (and other adherents to the WFPB diet) get plenty of fat but we get it in its original packaging i.e. the olive oil is in the olives, the corn oil is in the corn, etc., as the food was designed and balanced to meet the bodies needs. Not everyone agrees with me, and that's fine. But the studies I have seen are pretty compelling to me so this is what we do and it works for us. YMMV. The upside is that most anything that can be prepared with oil can also be prepared without it, so it's all good.

My favorite cardiac doc and one of my "mentors" on this food journey, Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn.


My other mentor doctor, John McDougall.
https://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2007nl/aug/oils.htm

There are many references and resources available regarding this, but 'nuff said. I love to answer the question when asked and hope that someone feels compelled to either research it more or give it a try, but never want to "preach" as there are not many things more personal than what we choose to put in our body.
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Old 15-07-2015, 14:18   #888
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re: Mouthwatering Boat Recipes (mainly plant based)

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Weav, that sounds scrumptious!
I have never made Gazpacho, but will have to give it a go.
My only reservation is about using 8 cloves of raw garlic. I happily saute 6-8 in dishes, or roast a whole head of cloves whole, then squeeze out the paste like contents. It mellows tremendously doing this. Raw though, I find just one packs a powerful punch and I sometimes only use a half in dips.

Do you wear a mask to stop you breathing all over patients the next day?

SWL
Good afternoon Sassy Lassie and all, my experiance says your right about the garlic but it also depends upon the variety. Some are really wimpy and others are very strong. Eight cloves is not much, cloves not heads. The sauteing kills some of the phytonutrieints so its best to use it raw for maximum nutrition. Besides, if you plan on going shopping a glass of this before you go will insure you have plenty of elbow room for those sales tables<smile>......
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Old 15-07-2015, 14:29   #889
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re: Mouthwatering Boat Recipes (mainly plant based)

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Suprise guests from Australia tonight.

My quick Pizza base.

I cup of plain Yogurt.
I cup self raising flour.

Mix and knead. Whilst kneading, throw in extra flour and knead for 3 minutes.

Roll to pizza size

add ingredients

cook like normal pizza for 8-13 minutes as required.

For those of you not into pre packaged crap and like to do it yourself here is a recipe for self rising flour.

  • 1 cup all-purpose flour
  • 1 1/4 teaspoon baking powder
  • a pinch of salt.
B
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Old 15-07-2015, 20:56   #890
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re: Mouthwatering Boat Recipes (mainly plant based)

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Originally Posted by oldragbaggers View Post
There are multiple problems with oils, especially for me, as over 50 years of research shows that fat in the bloodstream is the primary culprit in the MS episodes.
Hi Becky
Thanks for that long explanation .

It is fantastic that you have found something that works for you. I am a firm believer that our diets have a huge effect on our health. People sometimes lavish so much more time, effort and TLC maintaining their diesel engines than they do their bodies.

One thing I find strange is that we still don't really know what is absolutely optimal. So many conflicting studies point the way to very diverse eating plans. The only thing they all seem to have roughly in common is that highly processed food is to be avoided, along with sugar, additives like preservatives and food colourings, denatured (trans) fats, excess alcohol .....

I am conscious of what I consume, but also relaxed about it (no health issues that prompt me to stay on the straight and narrow so chocolate, icecream and sweet treats creep in occasionally). A keen interest in food while I was still young prompted me to explore the Pritikin diet in my early 20's (for health not weight loss reasons). I stuck to it strictly for three months once and felt absolutely fantastic for it. It really was an eye opener what an impact it had on energy levels, sleep required and generally feeling good.

Ideally for me, I now find my best balance is for masses of fruit and veggies, but a bit less grains, and more fats in the form of nuts, seeds, avocado, extra virgin olive oil and seafood than the Pritikin plan recommends. Also more protein from pulses and seafood. I have dairy in small quantities, meat rarely. This works for me. It may not for others. It helps that I absolutely love this food, so it is pure pleasure, not hardship eating what I consider is "well" for me.

My surprise about the exclusion of extra virgin olive oil from the WFPD was not that fat may be considered bad for you, but that this oil was regarded as "highly processed". I have watched the crushing process here in Greece. Just olives in and glorious greenish tinged liquid gold instantly crushed out . I personally believe some types of fat are essential for good health (eg for hormone and brain function) and I have no hesitation having a few spoonfuls of this oil daily, just not in quantities measured by the cup as used by the Greeks .

SWL
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Old 16-07-2015, 01:42   #891
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re: Mouthwatering Boat Recipes (mainly plant based)

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Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass View Post
Hi Becky
Thanks for that long explanation .

It is fantastic that you have found something that works for you. I am a firm believer that our diets have a huge effect on our health. People sometimes lavish so much more time, effort and TLC maintaining their diesel engines than they do their bodies.

One thing I find strange is that we still don't really know what is absolutely optimal. So many conflicting studies point the way to very diverse eating plans. The only thing they all seem to have roughly in common is that highly processed food is to be avoided, along with sugar, additives like preservatives and food colourings, denatured (trans) fats, excess alcohol .....

I am conscious of what I consume, but also relaxed about it (no health issues that prompt me to stay on the straight and narrow so chocolate, icecream and sweet treats creep in occasionally). A keen interest in food while I was still young prompted me to explore the Pritikin diet in my early 20's (for health not weight loss reasons). I stuck to it strictly for three months once and felt absolutely fantastic for it. It really was an eye opener what an impact it had on energy levels, sleep required and generally feeling good.

Ideally for me, I now find my best balance is for masses of fruit and veggies, but a bit less grains, and more fats in the form of nuts, seeds, avocado, extra virgin olive oil and seafood than the Pritikin plan recommends. Also more protein from pulses and seafood. I have dairy in small quantities, meat rarely. This works for me. It may not for others. It helps that I absolutely love this food, so it is pure pleasure, not hardship eating what I consider is "well" for me.

My surprise about the exclusion of extra virgin olive oil from the WFPD was not that fat may be considered bad for you, but that this oil was regarded as "highly processed". I have watched the crushing process here in Greece. Just olives in and glorious greenish tinged liquid gold instantly crushed out . I personally believe some types of fat are essential for good health (eg for hormone and brain function) and I have no hesitation having a few spoonfuls of this oil daily, just not in quantities measured by the cup as used by the Greeks .

SWL
Im firmly in the camp of moderation and individuality is the only way to go.

Avoidance of food to feel better is not a sign of health. Its a sign that an individual cannot tolerate or is negatively impacted by a substance. The Med diet, ie the foods eaten, high in oil is something that actually, in general, appears to benefit people. Those with specific illness may indeed NOT derive benefit from it.

I have a patient who goes to a naturopath who removes from her diet one food every 6 weeks. The patient feels better for a while then something else affects her and that food is removed. She told me that the naturopath is 'wonderful". I pointed out that her health now is actually restricted and her food left to eat is a very small choice. What happens when the naturopath removes from that group?......... She was not being treated to 'accept' food, rather by exclusion which is not a treatment at all. Once her body got used to not having a substance, it found something else to be affected by. The food IS NOT THE PROBLEM. (for her)

I walk cautiously in the "what is good for you and beneficial" camp. I never subscribed to the whole cholestrol eating thing, and appear to have been on the right path because 20 some years on, the powers that be have dropped the whole thing.

Everyone must make their own informed choices. Knowing which foods for the individual work, is the best way of eating. We all have preferences within groups.

Im sure several hundred million people in the Med will disagree with the notion that oil is not good for you, and I am one of them. It however, may not be good for someone suffering a specific illness.

I have antipathy towards ANYONE blanking out a food or food group except for a specific medical problem. When I go to Spain, I actually feel better eating the local food cooked in Olive oil and the salads drizzled with it..... a local oil, pressed in a local refinery and bought by me at the first and second and third pressing stage...just pressed and bottled. I also drink the wine and love the natural baked bread from unrefined flour. (I get a reaction from mass produced bread here in the UK..... it sends me to sleep. Sometimes its not the product, its the additives and stripping of the goodness in the ingredients.)

Just an external observation, not a criticism and definitely not to tell anyone that their diet is wrong or incorrect.
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Old 16-07-2015, 03:28   #892
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re: Mouthwatering Boat Recipes (mainly plant based)

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Good afternoon Sassy Lassie and all, my experiance says your right about the garlic but it also depends upon the variety. Some are really wimpy and others are very strong. Eight cloves is not much, cloves not heads. The sauteing kills some of the phytonutrieints so its best to use it raw for maximum nutrition. Besides, if you plan on going shopping a glass of this before you go will insure you have plenty of elbow room for those sales tables<smile>......
I was talking with SW the other day and mentioned that a gazpacho I had just made was refused by my sister as being "too much garlic". Knowing that I had only put 2 small cloves in 1.5 litres, I was surprised, then I tasted it.

Seems the garlic I had purchased was not the normal country of origin and was super strong..... I added another quart of gazpacho the existing mix and then was OK to drink.

The moral of the story is that you need to know your garlic!
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Old 16-07-2015, 06:57   #893
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re: Mouthwatering Boat Recipes (mainly plant based)

Very good posts from both Weavis and Lass. I always appreciate other viewpoints and have always felt myself that moderation, with a tendancy toward the stuff God created in its natural form, and not the stuff we cook up in the science lab, are the best choices for the human body. But now with my health issues I have to take it just a step further. And I am happy to do that as I too believe in the absolute power of food to heal and would trust what I put into my body in quantity four or five times a day much more than a pill or injection. The miracle cure of today is the class action lawsuit of tomorrow it seems.

Within my dietary guidelines I will say I am comfortable with a fudge factor. Most things are negotiable, within some fairly strict parameters. Where the strict parameters come in is with the total fat grams over the course of the day, which must remain below 50 grams total fat per day and under 15 grams saturated fat. (This is actually pretty liberal.) Over 60 years of experience with the Swank MS Diet and literally thousands of patients have shown that those who stick strictly to this regimen suffer far fewer episodes and the ones they have are much less severe. Most patients who stick strictly to the diet suffer minor disability over the course of the disease compared to those who don't. But within those parameters I always say that it's "a diet, not a religion." I am not overly dogmatic about it. I don't eat animal protein of any kind "as a rule" but once every few months if we are dining out and there are no real choices in vegetarian dishes I may have fish or seafood (without butter of course). If I am dining at someone's house and I know they used olive oil to prepare the meal, I eat it (gratefully), no big deal. Eating out in restaurants you can assume some oils and God knows what else creeps in even when you request they not use it. If I forget to mention not to add cheese to my salad and it comes with a few shreds of it, I don't send it back.

I know that because I am very careful in general that occasional deviations are not going to add up to enough to compromise what I am trying to accomplish over all. And so far it is working.

I don't feel like I deny myself anything in the way of food. As a matter of fact I think the variety and interest of my food far exceeds what it used to be when every night was a piece of grilled meat and a veggie. I have discovered so many interesting foods and combinations that I had never tried before and have become much more adventurous with my food choices. I love to cook and we enjoy eating. And a great side benefit is that I don't struggle with my weight any more. At one point in time I weighed over 200 pounds. I lost almost 80 pounds with Weight Watchers over a period of years but the only way I was able to maintain the loss was with constant calorie counting. Weighing and measuring everything was such a burden and I was always hungry. Now I eat what I want, when I want, and maintaining my weight is no longer an issue.

Color me happy, healthy, and well fed.
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Old 16-07-2015, 07:06   #894
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re: Mouthwatering Boat Recipes (mainly plant based)

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Originally Posted by oldragbaggers View Post

Color me happy, healthy, and well fed.
Thats what it is all about.

I think I am one of the few left who look at diet when advising on a cancer patients life style. I have this gut feeling that the Bristol diet was dropped because no one made money from it.......... I have observed that certain cancers slow down or reduce dramatically with a non red meat diet, and an increase in fish and fish oil uptake.

Its NOT a cure. But for the folks, it certainly helps deal with issues.
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Old 16-07-2015, 07:27   #895
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re: Mouthwatering Boat Recipes (mainly plant based)

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Thats what it is all about.

I think I am one of the few left who look at diet when advising on a cancer patients life style. I have this gut feeling that the Bristol diet was dropped because no one made money from it.......... I have observed that certain cancers slow down or reduce dramatically with a non red meat diet, and an increase in fish and fish oil uptake.

Its NOT a cure. But for the folks, it certainly helps deal with issues.
Thank you for taking that approach, Weavis.

The first neurologist I saw, when I asked him what he thought of the effect of diet on MS, told me that he didn't really think there was any validity to it. He just wanted to talk about medications. He is no longer my neurologist. My own primary care doctor, who is very much on the same page as me, told me that they don't really teach much about nutrition and it's effect on disease in medical school. They teach procedures and drugs. This seems crazy to me. I hope that changes before half the population keels over dead of a food and lifestyle related illness. I know it keeps a lot of people employed in the insurance, big pharma, and health care industry though so a lot of interest in keeping the status quo.
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Old 16-07-2015, 08:23   #896
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re: Mouthwatering Boat Recipes (mainly plant based)

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Thank you for taking that approach, Weavis.

The first neurologist I saw, when I asked him what he thought of the effect of diet on MS, told me that he didn't really think there was any validity to it. He just wanted to talk about medications. He is no longer my neurologist. My own primary care doctor, who is very much on the same page as me, told me that they don't really teach much about nutrition and it's effect on disease in medical school. They teach procedures and drugs. This seems crazy to me. I hope that changes before half the population keels over dead of a food and lifestyle related illness. I know it keeps a lot of people employed in the insurance, big pharma, and health care industry though so a lot of interest in keeping the status quo.
Becky, it sounds crazy to me to. Cynically I think part of treatment is dollar driven. I am no fanatic and recognise the value of drugs, but our systems are kept running by the food and drink we consume. It seems only logical to me that these play a vital role in our well being.

I am glad you have found something that works for you that you enjoy. That is the key I think. Food is such a pleasure that deprivation would affect the quality of life dreadfully. We all needs to strike a good balance between the instantaneous joy of consuming food and the positive affects it has on our systems. One without the other is not a great way to use up the precious and very limited time each of us have. It is not just longevity that is a consideration, but the quality of life.

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Old 16-07-2015, 10:01   #897
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re: Mouthwatering Boat Recipes (mainly plant based)

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Wild Rice Salad with Radicchio, Apricots, and Walnuts

1 cup wild rice *
1 clove garlic, grated or minced very finely
Juice of 1 lemon
1/4 cup extra-virgin olive oil
1/2 teaspoon salt
Pepper
1/2 head (1/3 pound) radicchio, sliced into thin ribbons
1/2 cup sliced dried or fresh apricots
1/2 cup chopped toasted walnuts
2 tablespoons parsley, chopped

Directions:
1. Cook rice according to package instructions. Let cool.
2. Make dressing by whisking together garlic, lemon juice, olive oil, salt, and pepper to taste.
3. When rice is cool, toss with remaining ingredients and dressing. Serve at room temperature.

* If you have trouble finding wild rice you can substitute quinoa or another grain like barley

Attachment 98604

Sailor G, I have been patiently waiting for both fresh apricots and radicchio to trial this recipe. I hit jackpot yesterday!

As usual, I could not resist having a little play with the ingredients . I added half a dozen dried apricots, a handful of walnuts and a tablespoon of white balsamic vinegar to the dressing and pureed it, giving an intensely apricot flavoured dressing to balance he slight bitterness of the radicchio. I also added wedges of red onion to give it some crunch. A fantastic, flavour rich summer salad .

WILD RICE SALAD WITH RADICCHIO, APRICOTS & WALNUTS

1 cup wild rice cooked with a stock cube, drained and cooled
1 small head radicchio, sliced into thin ribbons
cup sliced fresh apricots
cup chopped toasted walnuts
2 tablespoons chopped fresh herbs or greens (such as parsley, watercress, spinach)
I small red onion cut in wedges

Dressing:
1 clove garlic
Juice of 1 lemon
cup extra-virgin olive oil
1 tablespoon white balsamic vinegar
6 dried apricots
Handful walnuts
teaspoon salt
Freshly ground black pepper
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Old 16-07-2015, 20:22   #898
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re: Mouthwatering Boat Recipes (mainly plant based)

unfortunately Oldragbaggers, life cannot exsist without lipids and fatty acids. Would be like sailing without the wind or driving a car without fuel. Thank you for the info regarding MS, a nasty disease I wish was gone.

Best wishes
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Old 17-07-2015, 05:23   #899
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re: Mouthwatering Boat Recipes (mainly plant based)

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unfortunately Oldragbaggers, life cannot exsist without lipids and fatty acids. Would be like sailing without the wind or driving a car without fuel. Thank you for the info regarding MS, a nasty disease I wish was gone.

Best wishes
B
Understood. I do get plenty of fat in my diet. I put black olives almost every evening on my salad, as well as lots of avocados, nuts and seeds. I grind flax seeds in many of my foods. Corn and soy contain a lot of fat (I used the soy in moderation for other reasons), as does the almond milk I use for almost everything. My diet is by no means FAT FREE, it is however fat restricted, and especially saturated fats which are found almost primarily in animal foods.

Most doctors will tell you, as mine has gold me, that even if you were aiming for a 100% fat free diet, which is pretty much impossible unless you're living on water and lettuce alone, you would still get all the fat you need. It's unavoidable. There are traces of fat in almost everything. A fat free diet is a myth. (For instance, fat in one cup wheat flour 2.8 grams. Fat free bread doesn't exist.)
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Old 17-07-2015, 14:11   #900
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re: Mouthwatering Boat Recipes (mainly plant based)

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Understood. I do get plenty of fat in my diet. I put black olives almost every evening on my salad, as well as lots of avocados, nuts and seeds. I grind flax seeds in many of my foods. Corn and soy contain a lot of fat (I used the soy in moderation for other reasons), as does the almond milk I use for almost everything. My diet is by no means FAT FREE, it is however fat restricted, and especially saturated fats which are found almost primarily in animal foods.

Most doctors will tell you, as mine has gold me, that even if you were aiming for a 100% fat free diet, which is pretty much impossible unless you're living on water and lettuce alone, you would still get all the fat you need. It's unavoidable. There are traces of fat in almost everything. A fat free diet is a myth. (For instance, fat in one cup wheat flour 2.8 grams. Fat free bread doesn't exist.)
Your right, good info, as long as you get the 11 essential amino acids your body cant make it can make what ever it needs in this regard. Do you make your own almond milk? I have turned into a, make it myself person, because of the "added ingredients" in most mass produced products many added for the processing equipment others for customer appeal like man made colorings and flavors. I only wish real foods in my diet.
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