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Old 05-10-2016, 19:12   #31
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Re: Most efficient way to boil water on a boat

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Originally Posted by rwidman View Post
Anyone who puts more than a minute or two into studying the efficiency of boiling water on a boat needs something more important to occupy his mind.

Unless you are boiling several gallons of water each day, it doesn't really matter.
Same can be said about that freak who spent all that time videoing anchors

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Old 05-10-2016, 19:28   #32
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Re: Most efficient way to boil water on a boat

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So what's wrong with that?

Disclaimer: from a newly arrived sailor from California to British Columbia!!!
There's cool days in California too.

Disclaimer: from a newly arrived goat from British Columbia to California!!
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Old 05-10-2016, 19:30   #33
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Re: Most efficient way to boil water on a boat

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depends on how much money you have and generator status and ......
those of us too broke to buy fancy water heating devices use propane and a kettle. those with built in 6.5 kw onans etc, or 50 amp circuits on boats in marinas use shore power so it doesnt matter... h aha ha h ah a
Or walk up to expresso cart..............
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Old 05-10-2016, 19:34   #34
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Re: Most efficient way to boil water on a boat

Just reading this thread...........is it really that bad? I mean were discussing "boiling water", my gosh there are far more complicated issues in the world at this point in time.............Me dinks I'ma gonna go take a selfie! har har matey
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Old 05-10-2016, 19:42   #35
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Re: Most efficient way to boil water on a boat

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Actually it does when you are like me I only have x dollars a month to spend on stuff like propane or alcohol for my stoves ...........
If the cost of fuel to boil a few cups of water is a concern for you, you need a better job.

That would be a better useless task for the engineer types out there - how much is the actual cost of boiling a cup of water using each different appliance?

My guess? Under $.01 per cup unless you're burning dollar bills as your heat source.
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Old 05-10-2016, 19:47   #36
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Re: Most efficient way to boil water on a boat

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Just reading this thread...........is it really that bad? I mean were discussing "boiling water", my gosh there are far more complicated issues in the world at this point in time.............
I actually did a "boiling water" test a couple years ago but I was testing to see if there was a difference between the time it took to boil a cup of water in the same microwave on shore power or the (modified sine wave) inverter.

Shore power won but not by a lot. Perhaps 10% or less.
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Old 05-10-2016, 19:53   #37
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Re: Most efficient way to boil water on a boat

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I did say the Electric Kettle was $20 right.

Is $20 a lot of money?

If I wanted it, $200.00 would not matter.

The featured negative review on amazon provides photos of rust after a few uses.

I would not feel it was proper recommending such a product to others.

$20...the cost of a propane tank refill.

Tea anyone
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Old 05-10-2016, 20:27   #38
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Re: Most efficient way to boil water on a boat

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That would be a better useless task for the engineer types out there - how much is the actual cost of boiling a cup of water using each different appliance?
For propane at $3.4 a gallon the cost would be 2 cents for two cups (1 pound). So a penny a cup is just about right.

For an electric kettle with a 1000 watt element the cost would be about 1.7 cents per 2 cups of water. So a hair less then a propane stove. But yes not a hill of beans different.

An electric stove would be a bit more then propane cost wise. Microwave would be about a penny a cup too. That's at 10 cents a KW. In california that same cup costs 1.8 cents to 4.3 cents depending on teir (time of month).

BTW the Hamilton beach date listing time to heat numbers seem to violate the conservation of energy. That is to heat a pound of water in 2.14 minutes would take a 4.4kw element. Which it does not have. Or they used warm water for the test. I suspect it was written by a marketing guy. I could not fine the watts of the element on line. even from HB's manual.
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Old 05-10-2016, 20:31   #39
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Re: Most efficient way to boil water on a boat

For stoves, mating/optimizing the pot to go with the stove, & it's heat pattern/burner size plays a big role. As does what the pot's made of, so that it heats up quickly, & transfers that heat to it's contents with as little loss as possible. And even then, there's room for improvement. You can add things like a "heat exchanger" -->> MSRŪ Heat Exchanger - Efficiency booster for MSRŪ pots
Or even go to something like a pressure cooker, or a kelly kettle (as already mentioned). And look at the Jet Boil systems. They're fast.

Plus, I can't help but to wonder how quickly an on demand hot water system, such as are common in shower installations, could boil the quantities of water in question. Since they certainly heat up a good quantity of water for showering quite quickly.


Here's a think or three on various types of energy sources & systems:
Solar energy isn't "free". Nor necessarily as clean, or green as some would have us believe. In order to truly judge these things, one has to add up the costs of everything which goes into such energy sources; from raw materials in the ground, & extracting them, & converting them into solar panels. Until the panels wear out, & their materials "die". Where they're then put back into the earth.

And this needs doing for all of the components that are needed in order to use that (solar) energy. Like batteries, wiring, resistors (heating elements), & motors, etc.
Yes, solar's cheaper than many sources, but... one can't leave the other bits out of the tally when calculating it's "cost". Fiscally or environmentally.

Of course, then there are the huge losses in energy systems when turning one form of energy into another, in order to get it to the end user. Something which most people never think about. In this case, the energy is electricity being converted into heat.
But what's even worse, efficency wise. Is when energy (heat) is converted into electricity at a production plant. Which then gets transmitted somewhere via power lines, & it's then turned back into heat in order to make hot water in this scenario.

And in each step in this process, the amount of energy lost is staggering. In that more is lost each time it's converted from one form into another, than gets used to do work (heat the water up). Plus which the transmission losses for electricity over power lines are equally immense.
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Old 05-10-2016, 20:32   #40
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Re: Most efficient way to boil water on a boat

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Originally Posted by rwidman View Post
If the cost of fuel to boil a few cups of water is a concern for you, you need a better job.

That would be a better useless task for the engineer types out there - how much is the actual cost of boiling a cup of water using each different appliance?

My guess? Under $.01 per cup unless you're burning dollar bills as your heat source.
Ron remember some of us are on a fixed income . I do a bit of repair work but its going into the dead season here .
Actual cost for me is 0 dollars for hot water with my electric pot on inverter. Its worth an hour and a halfs solar to recoupe that power used for me.ymmv
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Old 05-10-2016, 20:51   #41
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Re: Most efficient way to boil water on a boat

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Plus, I can't help but to wonder how quickly an on demand hot water system, such as are common in shower installations, could boil the quantities of water in question. Since they certainly heat up a good quantity of water for showering quite quickly.
Nothing like throwing a lot of BTU's to heat water instantly. The typical instant hot water heater for homes run at 160,000 to 199,000 BTUH. That's a bit over 2.2 gallons of propane per hour, working. For that you can heat about 5 gpm of water roughly 75 degrees F. That costs 12 cents a minute to operate.

In Vegas, all the big hotels use instant water heaters (zero storage). They are in many cases steam fired or high temp hot water fired. One of many I designed could produce well over 1200 gallons per minute for the south tower which was enough for about 900 rooms (about a quarter of the total rooms) running the shower at any moment.

I had designed three 700 BHP steam (8 feet dia. x 23 feet long) boilers, two running, one standby, for that, though not at high fire. There were a total of 7 boilers partly for the second (future at the time) tower.

In Vegas, the morning shower load is the peak load on the boilers. Winter Heating loads run a distant second. There is also another 500 ish gpm for food service (2 kitchens and 8 restaurants and a food court, but they peak at different times from the shower loads.
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Old 05-10-2016, 21:11   #42
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Re: Most efficient way to boil water on a boat

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Originally Posted by sailorchic34 View Post
Nothing like throwing a lot of BTU's to heat water instantly. The typical instant hot water heater for homes run at 160,000 to 199,000 BTUH. That's a bit over 2.2 gallons of propane per hour, working. For that you can heat about 5 gpm of water roughly 75 degrees F. That costs 12 cents a minute to operate.

In Vegas, all the big hotels use instant water heaters (zero storage). They are in many cases steam fired or high temp hot water fired. One of many I designed could produce well over 1200 gallons per minute for the south tower which was enough for about 900 rooms (about a quarter of the total rooms) running the shower at any moment.

I had designed three 700 BHP steam (8 feet dia. x 23 feet long) boilers, two running, one standby, for that, though not at high fire. There were a total of 7 boilers partly for the second (future at the time) tower.

In Vegas, the morning shower load is the peak load on the boilers. Winter Heating loads run a distant second. There is also another 500 ish gpm for food service (2 kitchens and 8 restaurants and a food court, but they peak at different times from the shower loads.
I did a job some years ago replacing all of the coolant (they used antifreeze in the cold water--40,000 gallons) in a large shopping mall's AC system. The only time they could shut down the AC was when it dropped below 43F. Otherwise solar gain, lighting, people, and cash registers required AC.
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Old 05-10-2016, 21:20   #43
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Re: Most efficient way to boil water on a boat

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I did a job some years ago replacing all of the coolant (they used antifreeze in the cold water--40,000 gallons) in a large shopping mall's AC system. The only time they could shut down the AC was when it dropped below 43F. Otherwise solar gain, lighting, people, and cash registers required AC.
Sounds about right.

Casinos also need cooling year round, (400 watts per slot machine x 3000 slots) though there is some "free" cooling available in northern areas. I think of Missouri as being northern.
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Old 05-10-2016, 21:24   #44
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Re: Most efficient way to boil water on a boat

In an ongoing scientific test, I have found that the cost per btu/volume/thermodynamic molecular friction generation of said anhydrous liquid is significantly impacted by the ratio of time spend gazing at said medium.

I t is written................

And I agree with above comments, if ya gotta pinch pennies to boil water or stay warm, take up basket weaving, its simpler. And a lot cheaper than sailing, sorta.kinda...I like my baskets, the red one matches my thong........

Water jeez.............

lol enjoy the day........
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Old 05-10-2016, 21:30   #45
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Re: Most efficient way to boil water on a boat

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Plus which the transmission losses for electricity over power lines are equally immense.
Oh lets talk about ferro-resonance loss's. Or linier load harmonics and skin effect.


Get the conversation really going.......yup gotta love electric.........argh argh..
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